What Happened To Mastered Super Saiyan AFTER The CELL SAGA?

Mike, I’ve noticed most if not all of your recent videos have been focused on the Cell and Buu sagas. I know you’ve stated you dislike Super, and the Cell saga is your favorite, but is there nothing about the previous arcs or even other eras of dragon ball you’re interested in discussing? Maybe the movies or potential video game plotlines?

They didn't know about being in Super Saiyan 24/7 drains their life until 7 years later.

So my theory as to why they didn't be in Super Saiyan 24/7 after the Cell Game is because there is Super Saiyan 2 now. A better, stronger, form. So there's no need to keep up with staying in Super Saiyan 24/7. If they need to, they'll just turn into Super Saiyan 2 instead of staying in Super Saiyan 24/7.

Yeah, I don't call it Mastered Super Saiyan. Because it's just Super Saiyan. You can argue that they mastered it but it's still just Super Saiyan. It's like you wearing your shoes 24/7. It's still just a shoes.

For DBZ the standard Super Saiyan.
For Battle of Gods and Super? Most likely forgotten. Since every fucking form has stamina issues.

I think you can answer any question regarding the Dragonball franchise by simply saying "Toriyama forgot."

Gohan absolutely was in SS2 against Dabura. Look at the narrative and build up. At the start we see him using Super Saiyan as part of a disguise. Using the ultimate fighting form to play super hero. Then surprising Kabito, a divine being, by going SS2. So there's the build up. Dabura? Now we're seeing signs of problems as confirmed by Vegeta. Then his fall against Buu. This finally led the way to the discovery that the same well of power that originally made SS2 possible - hence previously concluding the hidden potential storyline starting at the beginning of Z - was itself greater than the final state of the Super Saiyan form.

Not going into what comes next. Only that whether it was the best course for the story is debatable.

What if super sayian became base?

Master Super Sayian was Gohan go to transformation. He used it in in the Bojack film, movie 10, fight against Dabura, fight against Fat Buu.

IMO
They showed Goku losing to Cell with it and Gohan beating Cell with a form that Goku and Vegeta both show to have trained to achieve in the buu saga.
Organically showing us that they favored a different path to strength.

If it was supposed to be canon that Vegeta could stay in Grade 4 and only gain benefits from it with no negatives I do not buy that he'd ever choose to live in base purely at a net lose. It seems uncharacteristic that the guy roasting Gohan for taking it easy was also choosing to be at a disadvantage in battle with his most valuable tool. No way.

So he either does not have the option like Goku and Gohan did in the cell sega for some reason or it's known to not be ultimately advantageous. (Or some lame author intent reason.)

I always wondered why the super saiyan aura was white in the manga

My head canon is that Even though they had Master it to the point it almost didn't drain their energy and didn't make them feel unease and on the edge, at a biological level the body is always on max alert wainting to be on a fights when transform, which is simply not healty to maintain in the long run and would result on a faster deterioration of the body

Taking a shot every time Mike said “Future” we’d be dead 😂

Was Vegito a SSJ or SSJ2 when fighting Super Buu?

I love these videos because I’m a sucker for Dragon Ball content but I really don’t think Toriyama thought that deep about these things tbh.

SSJ has become the new base form. Going in and out of it seems pretty simple at this point.

I always just assumed the reason there not always in super saiyan or any form above that is because when they train it would be easier in there super saiyan forms or other forms compared to there base form giving them less gains which is why they aren’t those forms unless they need to be

Mastered Super Saiyan became the regular Super Saiyan.

Gohan was 4 at the beginning of DBZ. One year passes, 5 in the Saiyan Saga. Frieza Saga last a few months so that's vague, let's say he's still 5. 3 years, 8 in the Android Saga. 1 year in the Time Chamber, 9. It makes sense, if you assume his birthday didn't pass during the Frieza Saga or leading up to Goku's return from Namek since it wasn't a full year.

Exaxctly

Super IS. Know what I'm sayin'?!

Way I see it, mastered super saipan is like wearing glasses, eventually you're so used to it you don't notice them and you can wear them all the time. If you upgrade the glasses to contact lenses (super saipan 2) there's really no need for the glasses, so going back to them requires you to get used to them again. Mastery of the saiyan forms it seems like is very full of intent, you have to actively be trying to quell the hightened emotional state that comes with entering the form alongside making the form feel as natural as being in base. Eo not every saiyan is a mastered super saiyan, and even saiyans that have mastered it likely aren't always using it since they've gone so long without the intentianl training method.

Multiple reasons but the very basics are
-Even Mastered SSJ is a strain on their bodies.
-SSJ is a power multiplier, so training while in that form potentially reduces how strong they can get from training.
-The goal of staying SSJ was to reduce the strain/energy loss from the form, after they did that why stay like that?

Personally I think that for Vegeta and Goku it largely comes down to their constant training as well as their pride in being great skilled fighters that defeat enemies with as little strength as necessary (though both of them like to flaunt their strength at times as well.) For Gohan I think it was more the strain it put on him and the fact that he stopped fighting/training entirely for several years. Specifically with Buu, every single fight became the ultimate endurance match with Buu winning basically everytime, you wouldn't want to strain your body even a tiny bit before fighting him if you didn't have to, so what would they gain by going SSJ and holding the form before fighting Buu? At that point everybody can turn it on so to speak with almost no effort, the only time a transformation was ever given much of a build up was Gohan during the World Martial Arts Tournament and then Goku when he went SSJ 3.

Good vid. I know it was more of a tangent, but this always bothered me whenever folks bring it up. Gohan earlier in the Buu arc went SSJ2 against Kibito and had lightning. Toriyama is consistent w/the lightning to denote the form in the manga. I think (I might be wrong) there is one instance where he depicts someone that we know to be SSJ2 where the lightning is omitted. It's a panel in the Gohan/Cell fight, at least I think it's been a while. There's another debatable panel after Vegeta knocks Goku out. The anime is another beast entirely and I can't prove Gohan isn't a SSJ2 there. The anime is frustratingly inconsistent between the forms, but the auras are distinct in the manga. I've always thought this issue was cut and dry regarding the source material.

Full mastered super saiyan is when their in the form with out the aura it never left

Does this fuck with all the power scaler's theories. How many account for this? Not deathbattle.

Blondes have more fun

I kinda dismiss this obvious forgotten writing change by Toriyama, as: Goku and Gohan only walking around post-Chamber in the Cell Arc, to show the other fighters that it could be done.
Going into the Buu Saga:
None of that “Mastered” state was needed for the flex on the other guys, anymore.

Ironically my blonde hair colour irl is more close to Frieza's Golden Form.

Even though Goku and Gohan was able to maintain SSJ in a natural state it is still a transformation.

Gohans 11 in the cell arc

I think once they mastered it, they no longer feel the strain of jumping up 50x in battle power so the transformation itself becomes second nature.

Bigger question is, why didn’t Goku start trying to stack the Kaioken with Super Saiyan at this point? If he unleashes the 20x as super saiyan, does he beat Cell?

Goku used mastered super saying when he fought yakon. I remember goku funny reaction when yakon attacks him you'll see what I'm taking about

Can you explain why the Saiyans’ pupils all reappear in their eyes in their strongest forms? You can’t see pupils in Super Saiyan 1-Blue, but in UI, Mastered UI, Blue Evolution, Ultra Ego, Super Saiyan 4 and even Beast Gohan they ALL have their pupils again. This has to be intentional, right?

The reason is because goku and Gohan agreed to stay in the super saiyan form until after the battle of cell. Whenever in super saiyan 1 its ultimately always grade 4, super saiyan 2 I confirmed the best super saiyan form as it doesn't kill stamina while being stronger than ssj1. Why would you change character designs just to make characters always in super saiyan. I feel like this video is a mute point

I also think its because of ambiguity, I seem to vaguely recall at one point them saying people would recognize the “gold haired warriors” from the Cell Games since it was televised, so they stay in base during peace to avoid publicity.

Vegeta’s “Blue Evolution” is literally just grade 2 that he used against semi perfect cell.. just in blue form
He bulks up and everything

Gohan should be 10 or 11 at the time he fought cell. He was 5 on namek. Goku was gone about a year after so gohan is 6 when trunks shows up. Three years to prepar for the androids. And one year in the time chamber. So he's at least 10 when he fights cell.

Gohan + Goku = Gohaku

They still have it they just started turning it off again after the Cell Games. After the Cell games when they go base Super Saiyan they are still emotionally in control and act like their casual self's. Gohan was literally to weak to even stay in SSJ form after beating Super Perfect Cell and after healing there was no need to transform anymore and staying transformed after Cell was more of a burden since it would be even harder then normal to control their strength. I mean Goku was shattering glasses from just trying to pick them up during their rest period

why are they asking that? don't people know? the original super saiyan had many drawbacks and you couldn't maintain it for long, they only use the mastered form after it since they MASTERED the form and no long need to de-transform after a fight or recover from it, even goten is using mastered super saiyan, since they no long get strained afterwards

Actually there are 2 reasons why in universe you wouldn't keep SSJ mastered always there...

Firstly though. It's a transformation. They are biologically changing into that new form. They can keep it always whether it is mastered or not.

The reasons you wouldn't is the reason they stated and why there seems like such a personality change in Goku when he first transformed. Your body is likely pumped full of different hormones and your biochemistry is different which means your neurology is different which at the end of the day makes you always agitated and whether you can deal with it or not doesn't mean you want to. So that is the first reason.

The second reason and more interesting when you take into account everything that is happening... So if you don't have to be agitated all the time, why would you? remains... but then add on top of that that if part of what they are talking about and that mastery is Ki Control.

They are triggering a transformation that altering the physiology which allows them to produce more ki and as a result, when you haven't mastered that other physiology that sudden energy spike explodes out of you, but when you master it, it's just a quick shift.

Now take that and understand that they raise and lower their power level and suppress their ki and the more powerful they get the more they can suppress it till their energy out put might go from 0 to 0 (and that is not a typo). So what they are doing is transforming at will when they need to, keeping their ki suppressed inside themselves and increasing it as needed, like flexing a muscle.

Understanding that... we can look at what is happening on panel and see that... no Vegeta and Trunks are not at "Mastered" Level in the Cell saga, because their muscles are pumped up. That was part of their solution. They can suppress their ki but to do so they had to do it incorrectly which we see results in that muscle pumping up... which we also see in other incorrect transformations.

And then when we look at Buu Saga what we are seeing when we are talking about SSJ/SSJ2... which is actually the more interesting part... is that it is exhaustion or strain when we see the auras and the lightning. It is not an indication of "transformation" probably as Toriyama seems to indicate with calling them Grades and what we see, because they are all 1 transformation and just a gradient... the question that raises is gradient of what and how graduated can they get.

As far as what the Elder Kai says...
we can just attribute him saying that to maybe SSJ biology is shorter lived which is probably the result of various hormones pumping through them which in general probably strains them a little bit more.
Or the Elder Kai is a dimwit saying things he knows nothing about as all the Kais do. And even if he isn't just being dumb, it indicates that he is familiar with Saiyajins and their lifespans and SSJ even though he shouldn't be, having been locked away for 75million years... And that's another hint at something that wasn't meant... That is to say that Kais and Angels are not the only two divine races... Namekians and Saiyans both seem to be and seem to be much more powerful in the long run, but something has tried to eliminate them.

I think Goku did it during Cell Saga because of Gohan's temperament, he saw how Gohan struggled transforming because he struggled getting angry, but he also knew Gohan had that inate power burst that could push him past the limit. So I think Goku wanted to ensure Gohan would ascend via the angry powerburst, and he didn't think Gohan could handle 2 in fight transformations.

Perhaps once they've Mastered Super Saiyan the body remains used to it even when not used or maintained. So they might be able to rest at base now and still get the befits when powered up. I don't think Ssj 2 is very useful if Ssj 1 is straining the body as it used to.

I just assume they ditched mastered since it was outclassed by ssj2.
Although, I also thought that achieving mastered even once fave them far greater control over ssj1.

Of course, I only consider mastered ssj the constant state. Its a new base form which makes it different in my eyes.

Does blackenfist at least have a good job and life? He just left us , and then popped up every 5 years for a cameo

Gohan stopped training and saw no reason to maintain the form since there was no threat, and goku pursued higher states of super saiyan. Why you needed more than a 30-second short for this is beyond me.

It became perfected ssjb

The real answer: Toriyama forgot.

In my opinion, mastered super saiyan is like getting used to flexing around grils to make it look like your stronger 😂 just because it's easy to stay flexing doesn't mean it's not still stressful 😅