Ep184: The Vajra Path - Dr Nida Chenagtsang & Dr Ian A Baker

When you go to Greece, be sure to participate in the Divine Liturgy at true monasteries. The Mysteries are still Alive.

Huge thank you for this excellent interview with such fabulous duo - very reassuring for us who want to navigate the complex world of vajrayana and its place in today's world.

be here now do no harm help others be still close eyes listen to your breathing.

@Guru Viking thanks for your channel, i have been following you for quite a bit, and watch considerable amount of your videos. I am from Bhutan and has lived in 3 continents. I would sincerely request you to interview Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche. I hope it really happens one day. You are a doing a lot by inviting these greats thinkers, scholars and practitioners. It is Kickstarting a process for Vajrayana to become accessible and intelligible for everyone in this contemporary age, those sincere and lost in the complexities of this field at least. Thanks GV.

Thank you Dr Nida la and Dr Baker la 🙏🙏🙏

Jay Matsyandra Nath

Steve, contrary to what some commenters say down here, you do a great job (as always) here. Needa say that both you and Ian skillfully but subtly balance and tease out the negative undercurrents and passive aggressiveness of the authentic dirty potato, who begins the talk, in various places, throwing sideways daggers so vague and unhelpful that they land more on the side of diffuse gossip than useful commentary, before you get him to say what he seemed to want to say from the get-go, about some white guys who perhaps can see the forest for the trees. For example, he should have given more substance to his comments about psychopaths, Machiavelli and dark triangles (and contrast that with skillful wrathfulness perhaps) and poisonous cocktail makers (vs "authentic" syncretism and maybe how the Tibetan mixology came to be) rather than just letting seep unbalanced energy winds into the virtual air. He comes off a bit more defensive than insightful here (for example, defending the loss of vegetarianism when Buddhism went to the Himalayas, but saying nothing about now, as the teachings have poured out to the diaspora; like to Italy, for example, where there is plenty). But Ian mopped up after him sufficiently,as you did as well with your follow-up questions and addenda. And even with all that being said, in its entirety, a great talk by all three. Thank you.

I am a student of Dr. Nida Chenagstang, and a long time admirer of Ian Baker, so for the two of them collaborating on the Vajra Path is euphoric for me.
Guru Viking I spotted you in one Genlas classes Lorraine MacBeth

I just thought, maybe James Bae is interesting also.

What about Fabio Andrico?

Guru Viking this was a great dialogue. I'm impressed with your questions!

The ability you have to allow people to open up and discuss things which they love. Which is shown by length of response. The length and depth of question, is also a bit greater during this talk.

Thank you 🙏🏻 🙇‍♂️

Great one! I do disagree with Nida's baseless statement about 'some white guys' who are finding novel ways forward instantly being labelled as narcissists. It's too easy today to make a statement like this against a white person. Imagine me, a white male, calling Nida out as 'im not racist, BUT....this tibetan guy...' Sorry Nida, you lost my respect in this one.

thank you for always beautiful episodes . just wondering, why is Dr Ian always on his phone during most of his interviews?

Roots of vajrayana. Fascinating.

That was such a good investment of my time, highly appreciated 💎💎💎

Wonderful conversation, thank you Steve.

💖

yaay🎊🎊🎊

Isn't Vajrayana some kinky way of gurus in power who can attempt to have sex with followers while using brain washing techniques...?

21st century Buddhist are follower of all Buddhist sects of Tibet; Nyingma, Gelug, Sakya, and Kargue. I follow all. Religion is individual business.

they really dont understand nor answer the questions very well

Nida sounds angry about the possibility of Dzogchen without the Tibetan Buddhist entrapments. So much so that I couldn't make sense of what he was trying to say. Wish they would have talked more about their upcoming talk on Eros Ecstasy and Elixirs, that sounds really interesting.

Beautiful episode! Thank you Dr. Nida, Dr. Baker and Steve 🙏

Brilliant !!!! Thanks !

Can you ask academics in the future why their entire approach isn't against what their purporting to study? "Study" would mean gaining direct experience the way a tradition prescribes it - not meaning to have mental activity about direct experiences one hasn't yet had - right?

Dear Brother viking, in some weeks I'll be flying to Thailand to ordain for yet unknown time in the theravada tradition. I choosen this for now because I've been informed that Mahajana and Vajrayana must be made as a commitment for life if ordained at a monastery... is this true..? or are there ways someone could ordain lets say for some years and dedicate oneself without being stuck with it for life in a monastery setting. I ask because I feel I resonate with Vajrayana and would love to get truly involved...

Thankyou, with Love
Jaap

🙏❤️

What a refreshing conversation! You both are so open and honest, it was a pleasure listening to you. By the way, I am doing the Five Wisdom Dakinis online, retreat with The Vajra Path, can't wait! I am also an organic potato, smile. Thank you, Steve this was a great interview!!

I doubt if this type of stuff is very useful at all for achieving enlightenment. Sounds like a lot of ego games to me.

How is the effectiveness of Vajrayana evaluated?

The goal of Vajrayana is to attain Buddahood in this lifetime. That has always been its goal and its promise. So the obvious question to ask here is, have Dr Baker and Dr Nida attained Buddhahood by practicing Vajrayana?

It's ok if the answer is no but if we are being honest we have to start asking the tough questions. Does this path actually work in its traditional form? If so, where are the mahasiddhas? If Dr Baker is not a mahasiddha, how is he able to judge what is effective or not? Same for Dr Nida? If they haven't attained Buddhahood, have they attained something? There are stages of the path, so what stages have they attained? They must know where they are and how far is left to go, don't you think? Otherwise how can they teach the path and even further, make adjustments to it?

To me these are obvious questions but it seems noone wants to talk about them honestly.

Now it is good karma for the wisdom as dr. Chenag mentioned, but the traditional approach or adopted versions by first gen of westerners will not do the trick for most interested. How many practitioners in the west? Yeah not many, even it seems there are. What is the reason for that? Teachers didn't hit The note? And, why so many misunderstandings about vajrayana? In the end is it Not a good karma for the wisdom teachings?

I wish someone someday will start interviewing some of the notable people on the Vajrayana circuit in a no-holds-barred way, asking the hard questions. I'm not sure it's going to be Steve, because he is way too nice and respectful to play that role.

There was a moment in the interview where Dr Ian Baker mentioned dangers involved with the practice. That was a potential opening towards exploration, but it went by.

When you hear the familiar warm-and-fuzzy sound bites about the dangers of "narcissism" and how you need to develop loving kindness through the preliminaries, you know there is a problem in the Vajra kingdom.

Here's a hot take: You can't develop genuine loving kindness by imagining it. Another one: The way most Vajrayana teachers talk about the psyche and the various "dangers" that the practitioner may be faced with is incredibly simplistic. The "dangers" that are being discussed are largely straw men. The actual dangers are elsewhere and are not being discussed, because the tradition has not developed a way, yet, to talk about things like pre-verbal trauma, attachment disturbances, unrecognized psychological imprinting or the impossibility to leap over your own shadow and what to do about it.

These are major falling down spots for someone who wants to invite shunyata into their life through the practices of tantra, Dzogchen or mahamudra, and if the teachers of the tradition will not do something to address the issue, I'm afraid the tradition is going to slide into less and less relevance, one pilgrimage to Bhutan at a time. Speaking as someone who loves the tradition, it makes me sad.

Anyone know which - if any - of Ian Baker's teachers requested that Ian teach? There's nothing about this on his website. What set me looking was his repeated claims here and elsewhere that there is a disconnect between between the teaching of dukkha and the Vajrayana.

What a combination of guests, my excitement for this one is huge! I'll miss the premiere due to loadshedding (in South Africa) but as soon as the lights come back on, this is what I'm watching tonight.