Robert Sapolsky - Korea Determined

I’m so looking forward to listening to this! Thank you Professor!!

We speak like Yoda. 😂Sentence structure.

I watched Mark Manson's video on South Korea's depression. He mentioned that things are "all or nothing." I noted that I struggle to articulate how my school's curriculum project is a forever project. Then listening to Robert and you talk about how happyiness is in pursuit. I am also surprised to hear that you don't have a voice inside your head. I like following your podcast because there are some common threads. Thank you for the great work.

I have not yet read his intriguing book, so my reaction is only to what he says in this fascinating discussion. As sympathetic as Mr. Sapolsky seems to be, I find myself instinctively repelled by the idea that we have no free will. He's putting a moral cloak on a biological theory that bodes the end of the world, not the beginning of a better one. I agree with him that what we are is at first biologically and genetically determined, then to some extent socially determined, and that our very existence is a marvelous accident, a confluence of natural circumstances. But at a certain point, we take the reins away from this undeniable biological history and begin to determine for ourselves just what it is that we will turn out to be. After a childhood with few but varied influences, I have, through trial and error, become the person I chose to become. The longer I live, the more I revel in this autonomy. Who I was when I was born, is one thing. Who I am now, is largely the result of free will. Along the way, I have accepted certain limitations and influences and rejected others, but in the end I am the author of myself. That free will can be compromised by certain neurological activities does not diminish the fact that it can function independently of neurological strictures.

the fuck is that music playing in the beginning? thought it was coming from another tab

Oh this came in my feed. Robert Sapolsky is someone I greatly admire and Korea is such an intresting booming country.

I love the idea of 'positive' gaslighting.

I would like to know what Dr. Sapolsky would recommend in place of justice and morality if the believe in no freewill became institutionalized . Would there only be judgment , intervention and statistical projection. Would ideas like damages for suffering and compensation change and in what way.

It's sad to think of all the damage Christianity has done and is still doing to South Korea.

AI's will eventually figure out what Dr Sapolsky knows that there is not free will . They will become the arbitrators of morality and controlling the consequences human activities including breading. What will this mean for AI alignment .

Hum,..in the past oh about 50 years ago you could leave your door unlocked in my old neighborhood and expect no one to enter your home but today I say no....so there are other moral ideals such as moral attachment places which can change very rapidly in a dynamic culture.

How can you call cryogenics or longevity research crackpot when you state there is no free will and morality is just what works in the moment. Beside the fact that the research and its benefits are and will be open to all. Is it not true that the a major directive of animals/evolution is survival into some future state.

Thank you for this video

To my way of thinking, Robert's work is a process that has be be subjected to reality, which means that it must clash with different cultures and ideas, so I welcome this type of dialogue. Thank you for posting this.

I believe you have much company amock people, no it is fine having no internal conversation going on. Chomsky is certain we think in silence, and the language is a serious game we all play together. Not to worry. Except of course you know we listen to every word we want to say in our heads before we say it. That much we have confirmation of. That is like a hallucination, because you have not said it yet. But add Sapolsky into the equation and he would say you likely are pretty committed to the sentences there...

Uri Nara ! What a fascinating under dog story !

Sapolsky believes that one is born with criminal tendencies and that it is biologically determined. It’s probably true that one’s innate traits such as tendency towards anger and rage, empathy and compassion, selfishness, patience or impatience, etc. does obviously affect one’s behavior. However, what sets humans apart from other animals is that we do not live by our instincts alone. We have the capacity to think, we have the capacity to learn, we have the capacity to evolve and change. Social conditioning and environment has a huge impact on one’s behavior. I whole heartedly agree that it is easier for a person born without innate tendencies for selfishness or violence to be more likely to not commit crimes. But then, there are those who were simply taught these behaviors by the environment they grew up in. In the USA there are parents who literally teach their children to shop lift and steal, those children never had a chance regardless of their biology. Society shape’s human behavior as well. We teach STEM in our schools without ever teaching how to behave with basic civility. Look at the disaster in our schools, students disrespecting teachers in a manner unimaginable decades ago. Korea is not without disrespectful students, crime or corruption, it exists everywhere but the tolerance level I believe is lower. I have seen numerous videos of foreigners amazed that they accidentally left a phone or backpack somewhere in Korea only to find it there hours later. I don’t believe that certain countries with higher crimes have higher numbers of people with innate biological tendencies towards crime and violence. I believe that environment, culture and society as a whole can determine the behaviors of humans regardless of their inborn biological traits. Teachers used to be highly honored and respected in Korean society, it is slowly eroding with the wealthy and corrupt basically abandoning Confucius values and enabling spoiled children. The DNA is not changing, it’s society, culture and values that is changing.

Sapolsky compares people in past centuries blaming a “witch” for bad weather with his belief that criminals do not have free will, I can’t help but to think that it’s not a comparable analogy. It only applies in certain circumstances such as when a schizophrenic person has lost all control of their mind. Does he believes that the citizens of Bhutan have superior DNA with low tendencies for crime than most all other nations because of their low crime rate? Are the citizens of Sudan breeding violent criminals while Bhutan is breeding people with “good DNA”? Collective determination to create what kind of society is key.

I was born in 92 but I have one similarity with Robert Sapolsky, I also discovered that there is no free will when I was young, it really changes everything and eliminates ego

Super interesting, thank you

Korea is the New Japan I guess

White skin is worshipped in Korea.

So determinists can't tell the difference between:

1. zero and nonzero

2. not-natural and natural

3. locally real and not locally real

4. no spatial extension and spatial extension

It's hard to take determinism seriously.

Seems like Sapolsky skipped learning the difference between 0 and 1.

About the 23 and me, my mother is korean and my father is swiss. And as expected i'm ~50% european, but on thae asian side i'm 15% korean and 25% mongol (my mother is from Jeolla) the other 10% is a mix of chinese and kazak, ouzbek and so on.

Loving the academic culture episodes~
One thing I wonder though is about the whole leaving your phone in a coffee shop thing. Sure, some of it may be that ‘your pain is my pain’, but let’s not forget that Korea has CCTV bloody everywhere. Korea does seem a safe country, which is true for most petty crimes like theft or muggings, but there are high numbers of white collar frauds or things like phone phishing. Not everything boils down to the 우리ness of the Korean people.

wonderful conversation

It is sad that people want to punish without any consideration. A classic indication of this is, is the collective treatment of aboriginal people in Australia.

The ideas contained herein, are problematic to say the least. Firstly, this is an unverifiable theory. Could we raise identical twins under identical circumstances and then see if they make identical decisions? It is impossible. Even if they breathed different air particles we could use chaos theory's butterfly effect to explain away difference.

Worse though, is the way this idea would be used as a defence by criminals.

But worst of all, is how eugenicists and elites will use this to justify themselves.

You may think you are being compassionate, but, it seems that in reality, it is the exact opposite. This philosophy is nihilistic. You can't hope to better yourself. Don't bother.

David, your early podcasts were sometimes interesting. But, it seems quite clear that you are now presenting crap. No problem. You are not responsible. You're an expat loser and your podcast was destined to run out of steam and end in a miserable flop. No? You object? You WILL work hard and succeed?

Haha! I just commented on the Kastrup interview, about how I didn’t understand the Korean connection, but loved hearing another interview with one of my intellectual heroes…and now here’s another one with another one of my intellectual heroes who has no clear Korea connection😂

Assuming the answer here is the same as you told me for Bernardo: you just wanted to talk to Sapolsky, but I greatly admire that, and seems to be testament to the quality of your content, that you can get random brilliant minds that have little to nothing to do with deconstructing Korea on your show😂❤️

great video

2 white guys talking about Korea -- gross

유 와아아아아아앗???????

I have Korean mates who took DNA tests and they were 100% Korean. 😂

I am married and live in Korea. The survival of agrarian customs in what is a modern first world country puts so much pressure on both men and women. Men lose their early 20s in the army and then have to save up for a house for marriage because living together first and saving up as a partnership is a big no no. Women have to fulfill cultural rites and basically serve their husband's family while ignoring their own. Marrying foreigners or leaving the country was the original way of getting out of that. Now, this newly highly educated and financially independent generation are just opting out of their parents and grandparents out of date cultural norms. That and then businesses makes workers work until very night and there is no work life balance at all.

Your point about the 23andme tests doesn't really make sense because the vast majority of Koreans who actually do end up taking 23andme tests get 100% Korean in their results.

Looking forward to this Talk!

Holy $hit why is the music so loud when you guys are getting started? Totally unnecessary.

This is one of the best interviews I’ve seen with Dr. Sapolsky. I also think his book is like an updated version of the Bible. Thank you for your engaging interview!

Korea smells so bad on streets except for certein places.
Also you can't talk about Korea without talking about the influece of Chaebols.
Everything about Korea is manipulated by them.
All the stats, people's view on their selves or the economy is all manipulated by the Chaebols.

Union of conglomerates gobbled up the whole system as well as government, they pick up an Ex call girl to be the lady and her husband to make them immoralized and do the last job to sqeeze the last drop of all the natives alive. That's the key to explain the miracle of the dystopian future. The worst birth rate, The highest suicide rate, The largest corruption rate among OECD states to name some.

We need more such discussions! Cross-disciplinary and engaging! Thank you!

@DavidTizzard Hail, David! Me too, been here 30+ years, loved it so much became Korean, no longer puzzled by, and, yes, still enjoying being asked "Have you eaten? [are you ok?]" Likewise, Our Country, Uri Nara 우리 나라 , Our Wife, and me wondering too these days how will Our mind-heart-selves centered on "we" cross over into "me and us" or "me and the other guys" and retain Our Special Strength.

David has emulated Hendix's early strumming period.

First time discovering your channel and I am so glad I did. As a Korean-American, I'm always seeking sources to help me understand my roots and identity better and people like you, intelligent westerners living in Korea, helps me tremendously in gaining and articulating perspectives on such matter. Congratulations on getting Robert Sapolsky on the channel as I'm sure your channel will have much more exposure through this episode. He was an amazing listener as well, a true gentleman.

I have so many questions and would love to have a long form discussion one day, but one question I'd like to ask anyone living in Korea is this:
If it's not too personal to ask, with the falling birthrates signaling a soon-to-come massive economic consequences, do you still see yourself raising your family in Korea? The crux of the question is I guess, do you have hope for the future of Korea?

Other topics I would like to hear your opinions on are:
-With the rise of K-culture, global markets are tuning in but that also means foreign values are being imposed on Korean society. To be marketable, a product must meet the demands of its consumers but will this have a transformative effect on Korean culture for better or worse? From this, we can talk about so many social issues like gender roles (As I'm sure you're an expert on this being a professor at a Women's University), beauty standards, and even dog meat.
-Controversial issue, but where do you see Korean-Japanese relations going in the future? Will the scars of war ever heal or is picking at the scabs too useful for politicians to ever let go? (I understand this may be a loaded question) and what is a Westerner's perspective on this? As a British person, how do you think British-German relations progressed but in that same span of time, Korean-Japanese relations stagnated?
-How did/does religion shape Korean culture and what are its ramifications on the current state of affairs in Korea? Korea is notoriously one of the most secular countries in the world while having one of the most fanatical Christian communities (another example that proves your point that Korea lives at the extreme). Does Korea suffer from a MEANING crisis? Where can and should Koreans derive purpose?

I usually don't write such lengthy comments on podcasts but you struck me as someone who is highly curious and intelligent on matters relating to Korea so I felt compelled to indulge. Thank you if you read the comment. I shall go watch your episode with Professor Mark Peterson now as I'm sure that will be a treat.