Dawntrail and The 10 Year Problem

living memory was a retred of ultima thule, only we are now the killer instead of saving it. Tbh I'm disappointed that the story was not light hearted. I don't like that the MSQ had such high stakes metion 2.0 wants to ravage all the reflections for x it felt contrived, we for all the talk our side did refused to find another way plenty we could have done to help the endless with their energy problems, the writers act like they don't have a post story they can put ideas into and the game should have had more voiced cutscenes I skipped a lot of the story because it was unvoiced and therefor e not that important. I mean if it was important they would have voiced it.

furthermore I feel Wuk Lamat had too much screen time what did g'raha think of solution 9?

why didn't we have solo instances fighting urianger and thancred? or a dungeon doing it that would have been cool like alisae fights them and loses but then we pull up and beat them with trust or solo that would have been way better than what we got.

The MSQ was painful for me to get through and it really does get worse the more you stew on it because so many plot points were badly thought out, like the baby massacre thing, where the logic of the whole situation falls apart when you stop and think about it, that is true with so many other things. The whole thing that went down in Solution 9 totally failed for me because one of those contradictions hit me and completely took me out because once you notice that it doesn't make sense, you can't feel emotional about it when the story wants you to.

The writing was just bad IMO, like they had plot points they wanted to go together but they didn't come up with ways for them to that made sense. They forced Wuk Lamat, a lot of filler, childish concepts and dialogue, no stakes, they really need to stop being scared of making main characters die or get injured in a way that takes them out permanently because you don't believe anyone is in danger anymore, like we already know they don't have the nerve to pull the trigger and not reveal that the gun was fake to walk it back.

i disagree with making players angry is better than making them don't care, if i'm angry like i am with the Yawnfail story then i'm going to quit that shit and not touch it again, if i just don't care like i did with Stormblood then i'm fine, i do my leveling, my trials, my raids n stuff like that and all is good. So no, making people angry is not the right way, would you rather made angry by the same person on and on literally hating having to deal with their shit or don't care but still can be around them and enjoy yourself?!

I have a tonne of different thoughts about Dawntrail and in general I think I'm way more positive about it than average. I legitimately really, really like it, and would group it with the three great expansions - that being Heavensward, Shadowbringers and Endwalker - more than with the two mediocre ones - ARR and Stormblood. Even if I think it's the weakest of the good expansions, I'm pretty sure that puts me in a minority.

That said, there is one aspect of Dawntrail that I'm incredibly disappointed in, and that's its place as the start of a new "saga". It is decisively not that. It doesn't feel as much as a bold step into a new story as it does a momentary distraction. Other than the vague concept of "travelling to other reflections might be possible" - which Y'shtola has wanted to do since the Shadowbringers patches and thus we've expected it was going to happen anyway - I don't feel like we're left with anything new. I really expected a hint at an overarching big bad for the new saga along the lines of what the Ascians and Garlemald were, or a core conflict we can build around for the next 10 years, anything. I think a big part of why I'm more positive on Dawntrail than a lot of people is that I came in with lowered expectations, since I wanted it to do the ARR thing and be a little duller and less interesting in exchange for being a new ground on which to build a new long-running story. It feels like they kicked the can down the road, and while I think that let them do Tural way more justice than I expected it feels like they've written themselves into the same corner they were in post Endwalker.

The biggest thing symbolic of this for me is the Scions. Don't get me wrong, I love them, they're incredibly dear to me, Alphinaud is my precious poindexter son and I would jump on a grenade for him, but the Scions are over. We've been around them for 10 years and each of them (barring maybe Y'shtola) has had a great arc and a great story that's done. They're relics of the past saga, and it's time to cut them loose and replace them with a new core cast for us to fall in love with. I don't want the Scions gone - we can still have them show up every now and again - but they've had more than enough time in the spotlight and we've squeezed about as much out of them as is reasonable. All that's left is to just have them be eternal around at the end of their arcs, unchanging and unmoving, like characters in the 10th season of a TV show that only had 6 seasons in it. Endwalker correctly identified this and made a big deal of disbanding them and scattering them across the world, and I was incredibly excited. The message was clear: We'd meet up with the Scions now and again, have little hype moments where like, Estinien shows up to save the day, or we'd bring in Y'shtola when we need aetherological expertise and she can hang out with us for a few levels and we'd all be very excited, but we're clearing the way for new characters to take the spotlight, a new central cast for a new overarching story.

And then it just... didn't happen. Sure, Wuk Lamat has a massive role, but she's clearly a one-expansion central character just like Ysayle, Lyse or Ryne, she's not a new "party member". Meanwhile, the Scions' presence is basically as fumbled as it could possibly be. The twins are around for the entire expansion as basically just simulacra of their usual characters. There's like a couple bits where Alisaie comes across as firey and reckless and they're fun if vapid, but Alphinaud shows off nothing that makes him who he is - I think the only lines he has this whole expansion that couldn't have just been given to some other person are a couple jokes about collecting firewood and when he's excited to see Estinien. Estinien is... around, for some reason, he doesn't DO anything. Y'shtola and G'raha just arbitrarily show up near the end of the expansion just because they're the most logical people to have spout exposition about inter-reflection travel. Basically the only Scions who feel like there's a point to their presence are Thancred and Urianger, who have a few really good scenes with Koana but feel incredibly underused, mostly because Koana doesn't get enough screentime.

Other than Thancred and Urianger, they all feel like cardboard cutouts of the characters we know and love. There's this bit where you're standing in front of Everkeep with all the Scions preparing to confront Zoraal Ja (including the ones who were meant to stay in Tuliyollal who just randomly pop out of an elevator at one point because we need a full party for the Trust) and I remember thinking "No one here other than the Twins has any emotional attachment to any of this". Half of them haven't even been in Tural for a week. It doesn't feel like we're confronting the villain with our crew who we've been through thick and thin through and it's this big thing everyone here is ready for, it feels like you're confronting the villain with Wuk Lamat and also a bunch of randos you called in for help. Compare it with the Hydaelyn trial where it feels wrong to not do it with the NPCs for the first time because the NPCs feel like they belong in that plot beat. This IS the worst case scenario that I thought the big Scion dissolution was meant to combat, where the Scions are just AROUND, because they're the FFXIV people and this is FFXIV and you need the FFXIV people in FFXIV, just baggage that the game is obligated to carry around because it just arbitrarily has to.

I really loved Dawntrail, I'm not lying. I feel like I like it more than just about anyone else I've seen on the Internet, where the reception seems to vary from a tepid "it's alright" to vitriolic hatred. Wuk Lamat worked incredibly well for me, I loved the first half a lot, Tural is one of my favourite locations in the game, the Alexandrian plot was heart-wrenching and I genuinely think Sphene is the best villain the game has had other than Emet-Selch. But it's really, really left me worried for the future of the story, because everything that ISN'T just Dawntrail-specific feels neglected and cast aside, and it's ultimately those connecting elements that make FFXIV truly great. The Hydaelyn and Zodiark saga was so good because it was greater than the sum of its parts, and Dawntrail's approach makes that impossible.

Jesus Christ, I got really wrapped up in writing this and didn't realize how massive it got. I'm probably going to end up writing a big thing about Dawntrail because I have so many thoughts about it.

Hot Take:
I don't think we needed to do more with the Scions. That's not where the story went wrong.
I think we needed to have less to do with the Scions.
You're right Alphinaud and Alisae were kinda just in the background. They shouldn't be here. They should still be freezing there butts off in Garlemald.

I love the twins but it fits their character to remain in Garlemald and fix a broken nation. Just because I love characters doesn't mean they need to be around me all the time.
I said it in what was it 6.4 and I think I was right. After 10 years of development let the twins and the scions be their own characters else where.


For a story to end and let other new ones begin. That way they can show up only when they really really are necessary.

Graha being sidelined until things were at their worst was stupid since he should have been going on this "Next Great Adventure with us"

If it was Graha and Krile traveling with us that would have been interesting. (Plus Graha is an All-Rounder he can play any role, Krile is a healer and a dps, Wuk could be tank/dps)

I believe the story dedicated enough time for Krile also. I think she asked questions to the right people at the right moments. Krile is a grown mature Woman. You're not gonna see her in a weeping mess unraveling the mystery earing her Grand father gave her.

It is a shame there wasn't more direct contest between us.

I really didn't have a problem with the story. I think people are too harsh/critical of it because they want another ShB or Ew, which isn't going to happen yet lol. We're back in ARR, chill out lol. What I DID have an issue with is it taking far too long to actually have some combat. They need to remedy that because I'm here for a good time. I wanna push buttons. I didn't level the new job just to look at it in cutscenes.

FFXIV is the only MMORPG where people feel the need to give these long opening explanations of how they actually really love the game and don't mean to just be negative about it, despite their criticisms. Other MMOs, if people say anything similar, it's a brief one or two sentences. Otherwise, they just give their opinions and let others agree or disagree as they will.

Sad thing is, I know why. It's because a notable portion of the FFXIV community act like opinion police, ready to pounce on anyone for even the slightest criticism. It's happened to me a several times already for DT. It's what happens when people attach their identity to a video game - they take any critical opinion of it as a personal attack. Thing is, that's a them problem. Not a you problem.

The opposite of love isn't hate. It's apathy. That you paid that much attention and thought about the story and such so deeply, enough to come to these conclusions, and then make this video speaks well enough that you love XIV. You shouldn't have to spell it out for people who can't comprehend that. Alas... FFXIV has some "special" people playing it.

Just say your thoughts. No need to reassure the hyper-sensitive folks that you're not a hater. They're probably going to think so anyway.

DT's story is weak and scattered.
The writing is weak.
The pacing is bad.
They're still stuck on this thing about "trying to make people cry".
The questing structure is old and outdated. We're talking 20+ years old. Look at ESO, or Secret World Legends for other, more interesting ways questing can be done.
It's the Wuk Lamat Show, and we're just her background posse following her around, as she does the same skits over and over.

Expectation: vacation
Reality: baby sitting a overgrown cringy cat

Dawntrail and the Wuk problem. And absence of Ishikawa problem. And horrible MSQ problem

The game it’s same 10 past years formula they changed nothing

Thank you for beautifully articulating the biggest issue with Dawntrail, storytelling. (No Ishikawa).
I especially agree that they just want to shove in lore without tying in it which was a huge problem for me. Nothing revealed in this expansion felt like it built upon or respected existing lore.

On a tangent, I want to make clear that the story/progression in the Shaaloani ("Texas") is unanimously hated, not just in NA but all regions, this including those who are critical of the expansion and even those who say they enjoyed it. Shaaloani is deserving of hate because it is the most egregious example of all the issues this expansion has that miraculously displeased every type of players.

What intrigues me is that this expansion wasn't positioned to be a risk taker. It was set to be akin to those "slice-of-life, vacation, rest in-between battles" episodes. I feel that the main theme was just going to be about discovery, but they decided that it was too risky to do that, so they did a sudden change and made Sphene an antagonist, then recycled Zoraal Ja because they didn't want the player to really hate Sphene (which removes depth and risk). I am convinced of this since Zoraal Ja's attacks are elaborately displayed while we never see Sphene partake in any destruction at all, acting victim. Even the last fight, she transforms into this machina that holds her hostage, which again seems like a way to try deflect that Sphene is not the antagonist. At this point, they needed to double-down on the "make you sympathize with the enemy"-formula, therefore adding in that random lizard child (who steals Krile's moments a few times).

Another big issue with the storytelling -- There haven't been any impactful losses that the player couldn't/shouldn't digest, like Papalymo, Moenbryda, Haurchefant, or Ysayle (to same a few). Dawntrail falls flat because it tries to follow the formula of loss and sacrifice when there are little to no repercussions or consequences. (Daddy and Mommy passed away, but they weren't characters we spent a very long time building up a relationship with. We also are reminded time after time that the people we see in Living Memory are exactly that, living memories, that must be erased. This significantly dampens the emotional impact on the player because the choice is made for them.) I also want to point out that Wuk shows no real character development. She learned to adapt to different situations, though there was nothing about her that changed. She did not incur any losses because she took no risks. Therefore, she didn't learn a lesson, so she didn't grow/change.

Instead of that lazy, "Let's be kings together bro", what if Wuk actually lost and did the whole Zoraal Ja bit herself, unleashing Sphene (who acts like she is innocent when confronted) onto Tuliyollal? Wuk goes into HF/SN, trying to redeem herself (or not, regardless Tural is doomed if she doesn't take action) but symphonizes with Sphene (since Wuk is still a softie who doesn't know real consequences or accept them) and fights us instead of Zoraal? (Removing Shaaloni, enemy Zoraal, and Lizard Child while at it.) Whoever stops and convinces Wuk after the fight to reconsider would have gotten so much love from the players as well. (This also would have been a great point to have some of the Scions disagree with the WoL's decision and join alongside Wuk to fight. A point of actual meaningful choice where the players chooses who is going to the be the "enemy" in dialogue before or even earlier in the expansion.)

The only part I disagree and was surprised is that you liked all the FF9 inclusions as a fan. I haven't felt more disgusted. Until now, homages have either been an easter egg, or the main highlight of the content. How they used FF9 in this expansion was "copy my homework but change it a bit" aside from the obvious placement that those just familiar with FF9 would notice. Anything revolving around Sphene including the plot, Solution Nine, and Living Memory, are all pulled from FF9 in one way or another. So add this with copying FF9 and from their own essay they got a C- on, you get the mess that we experienced. Its like they deliberately botched FF9's homages to distract us from the bad storytelling.

Ff16 had more slightly better transitions when it was transitioning between subplots around clive. Change to jill and joshua focus you could tell it was a bad transition

I agree so hard on the comparison to Final Fantasy 16. Absolute hype moments followed by the most tedious filler fetch and go talk to this person here quest chains. These games obviously shouldn't only be hype moments one after the other, but CB3 really needs to change the way they aproach world building and character moments in their narratives. A good comparison is the way the Trails series games deal with quieter slower moments in between big narrative climaxes within the story.

Still working my way through MSQ (just hit the level 97 zone) but I'm definitely bookmarking for later.

My biggest issue was the time paradox not making any sense or even being addressed. When you go into the dome you find out 30 years have passed inside it while it had only been a "few" days outside. Even if we are being generous and saying a week had passed outside that makes the time difference massive. I didn't pay much attention to it till the scene where you confront Zoraal ja near the end and he sends the 2nd attack to Tuliyollal and the surrounding areas. he sends the attack and the cutscene plays out then he hears it was a failure and they had to pull back. However it would of taken days inside the dome for that attack to go on even if the attack only lasted 5 minutes outside the dome.

Then at the end when you return to Tuliyollal her brother is saying how good it is to see wuk again and how he was worried with her being gone all this time while I am just sitting here thinking if 7 days in this world = 30 years in the dome we would of had to been in the dome for 1,564 days before 1 day passed to him we barely would of been gone long enough for him to boil some water to make tea.
🤷‍♂

Well put.

Once more, fantastic video!

You didn't sound "overly" negative at all to me! You listed what you enjoyed and what you didn't and your hesitations about the future of the game.

I've mostly seen super generic (negative or positive) takes about this expansion so far, so this was such a breath of fresh air to watch! The negativity in particular has sometimes come across as so fiercely vitriolic that it's kind of uncomfortable, especially with a portion of it absolutely being dedicated to any of the PoC actors/actresses and the "different" nature of the cast (which is also really jarring to me considering how well-meaning this story is thematically, I'd rather take something somewhat clumsy and well-meaning than hateful and perfectly-made). It's great to see someone just focus on the story as it is.

And I actually really agree with it, too. I've long listed "pacing" as the biggest issue with this game's narrative and you just hit the nail on the head in terms of elaborating on that issue. A lot of the time "wasted" ends up mattering in the end, but it doesn't end up "mattering". I personally think about the Moogle quest or the quest involving actually getting to Azys Lla in Heavensward or even the entirety of the Ruby Sea in Stormblood because they matter "on the surface", as in, getting from one point to the next.

In comparison, at the very least in Dawntrail, all of the varying peoples have the uniting idea of having a perspective for Wuk Lamat to learn to understand that is distinct. Understanding a culture's individual customs, understanding the work of artists and value of good working conditions, identifying and healing a broken system, understanding trade and understanding the importance of historical events (and maybe how it is shaped in unexpected way, like through cuisine).

My big issue with Stromblood was that the driving issue for almost all of the Stormblood societies was convincing them to fight with you. All of them. Which is why getting to the Azim Steppe was so refreshing: it had several different clashing perspectives that weren't just related to people suffering under Garlemald, Ala Mhigo and Yanxia felt really indistinct from each other in that sense to me.

So as time went on, they've at least learned to make less generic connective material. And then I very much enjoyed what I think is peak of this evolution in Endwalker. All of the societies explored in Ultima Thule were thematically relevant, character relevant, most of all.


Before StB, even if I had mild interest in like the Vath/Gnath or Sylphs, they sort of just felt like generic vehicles to get to the next dungeon or fight. Even as much as I loved the Gabu subplot in the HW patches and the fun sillyness of Alexander, it was kind of a stand-out among pretty generic stuff. And all of the subplots evolved sort of like this. They at least evolved a bunch beyond "meet generic grunt".

And in that sense I'd actually push back on the thematic asides of Dawntrail, which all are at least different aspects of knowledge for leadership being highlighted. But, again, as you say, whether or not they all have a "strong" reason to exist is another question.

And the moment I finished the MSQ, I felt the problem of thematic repetition would become one that could fly under the radar and I'm happy you just straight-up went into this issue and someone spoke about it. I agree with you on the fact that at this point I do not think it is yet a debilitating issue and in execution, I think the final zone is incredibly strong (wept through a bunch of it), but as you said, I think they can't do that again for an eternity. (Or maybe even a 4th time. Let 3 be the magic number.)

In the lead up to Dawntrail Yoshi-P talked a lot about making the dungeon content more engaging and perhaps shaking it up and there has been hints of bigger job changes are slated for 8.0 (and of course, we have the graphics update that was covered extensively for big promises), and the narrative also isn't immune to this stagnation issue.

I think they absolutely delivered on the key elements they promised: the dungeon and trial design shakeup is incredibly refreshing. The graphics update breathes new life into the visuals of the game and even the cultures themselves at play in the story sidestep aspects that could have been seen as problematic in the previous expansions. All of this is separate from narrative structure and thematic focus as it is, though.


This expansion is an awesome time "as a game", as they promised. And I think as long as they continue to do that, it is never going to truly die.

Much like you, I enjoyed the whole thing a bunch as a story, even; it's a 7/8 to me.

But they have to do the same shakeup in terms of narrative at some point or people will lose interest. I agree that we need another "Bloody Banquet" (that also isn't a retread).


And I kind of get the sense they know about the this issue, too because there are a lot of little threads they planted they could pull from and they even said that where they go depends on the reaction to Dawntrail; that they are basically back to where it started with A Realm Reborn and testing the waters on where they want to go.

In that sense, if you are testing new ground, having a familiar foundation can also be a good springboard.

And, well, the details people seem to be negative about regarding Dawntrail are the less interesting elements of the story. Looking in from my bubble, people seem to love the content, love the zones themselves, the graphics update and be frustrated by how simple the characters are and how the story isn't "as good as Endwalker" (which can't really be forced and will in fact take time yet again to build towards). It really is incredibly similar to the issues with job and encounter design they had in Endwalker. Discard everything that is a source of friction because it might bring about a negative reception.

In fact, I even get the sense this safeness might be intentional when thinking about the similarity with A Realm Reborn and its placement. It's an almost eerily similar situation of stagnation that lead them here, just not with catastrophic consequences in terms of the game's actual development. One of the big reasons why the disaster with 1.0 happened was stagnation and the team not looking outside of themselves.

I will only start seeing it as a true issue when Dawntrail's patch content is done and we're still at the same place; a stagnant 8.0 will, however, ring some true alarm bells to me.

This game has built up a lot of goodwill on my part and has taught me the developers do think very strongly in the bigger picture, so I'm going in as such. Just like I'm not buying the 6.x series is just filler, I'm also not buying they are not aware of a possibly stagnating narrative; even the big turning point of this expansion tells me this.

I'm sus in all aspects. And that is both uneasy and incredibly exciting.

The thing that bothered me the most is how they handle the player's character. The savior of the world, god killer, the warrior of light, just stands there doing nothing. I would even be happier if they gave me tacos to eat while I just standing there watching people die.

They did a really great job with the fighting scenes. I mean, really, we have never seen characters move this smoothly in cutscenes.
Which also means they had the ability and the resorce to easily put 5 to 10 other NPCs to stop the player from helping or give an easy reason (like there are people who need to be saved and Wuk Lamat tells the player to trust her and go or something). Instead, they just put the player aside like a freaking idiot watching things loseing control.

Unfortunately trying to get that balance is overshadowed by the investors bottom line

Why do you go north after the acension? Because you came there to explore? Not to join another nation lol

I agree with your point on mamook overall, but i was kinds thinking that the people mamook didn't want to leave cus those that remained are traditionalist and RACIST!!!!!! (Which the writers didnt commit to either with bakool and the people) i felt like it was supposed to be one of the biggest foils of the story up to that point. Wuk Lamat interacting with people who arent open to being understood by outsiders could have been a lot more interesting.

Ishikawa didn't write 7.0 personally and it shows.

The Kid exists because they needed an Eiko, the little kid summoner with a horn on her head from FF9.
I do like when FF does their references but sometimes they feel kinda outta place. Feels like they think they need to have everything in it instead of cutting some of it out.

I pretty much agree with everything you said. The story is not bad, but it doesn’t live up to the standards set by the last two expansions. It’s feels like Ishikawa is probably writing FF17’s story right now and they let other staff step it up to write Dawntrail’s MSQ. She has that magic touch with character writing that felt absent here.

I would love another bloody banquet moment... i personally really want a prison expansion. I wanna see them gut our characters temporarily because i know that the power scaling we've built up is going to consistently be a problem. So many people complained about being so strong but not taking action enough in dawntrail and i think this will continue to be a problem when we are involved in lower stake stories.

I think dawntrail was close to giving decent stakes without being purely about power, but i want more of that. I feel like i would have been more invested in the wild west zone had they introduced Zekowa earlier and built up his story with his team going to prison.

Would also like to really see a new cast of characters for an expansion. 1 scion being there MAX. I dont like when they try ro do both at the samw time

Not even half voice acteed. Sometimes, one scene have voice, then we made two steps to other npc, same characters and yet no voice. Big immersion breaking.

arr was the only time i ever enjoyed ffxiv.(i quit in ShB but may come back for the ffxi raid) also wasnt it announced that dawntrail finally matched concurrent players of 2.x?(its funny cus i remember them spouting 10mil, 15mil with each expasnion) and this is like the first epxnasion where people are finally tired of the game/speaking out. To me it almost seems like all the good stuff was really set in place from 1.x og director/ffxi team. and yosheep to this day still get praised for his 1 trick pony success story of turning the game around... all the 2.x/3.x and esp ffxi players left this game long long ago. Its been riding a wave of new players who are too new to point out this boring formula of a game.

I hated Wuk Lamat. I’m sorry. They could’ve easily twisted this into something that proved her ability to be a leader like being our rival or even letting our character decide between her and the others vying for the throne as to who was the best fit and that choice having consequences.

There also should’ve been a rivalry between all the scions. I would’ve loved for all of the Scions, including the WOL, to get into some sort of fight and then spent the the remaining expansion either driving the rift further apart (which would open the door for a new group) OR we eventually get back together.

Finally a critique that isn't just wuk lamat bad she ruined the game. I agree with most of what you said but I feel as though the themes do tie together especially after I learned that the jp name translates to legacy which I think family death and leadership fit into. Definitely could have made it more clear how they tie together and I have no idea what the western part was about it feels so disconnected from everything else my only though might be about the legacy the wol has left in other reflections which might be the next chapter of the story

Really agree with your insights and opinions on the story and direction. I really hope the staff watch this. You were very respectful and tactful in the delivery of your criticism.

I agree with a lot of your points. When I got to Texas.. I'm like " LET ME GO, I DON"T CARE" SKIP! I have an unpopular opinion here. There is not much to do in a new expansion without doing the MSQ first. You are FAR better at story telling than me. I would have opened all zones except the last and I would have open that once we found the gate. Sure there could have been not much going on there. just NPCS doing things whatever (I miss just chatting with a random NPC about the world around them, going to the last zone without knowing much about it would have been interesting. ) but gathering, hunts, fates, etc are up up. ARR, 1.0, and FFXI you could wonder to other zones. I think locking these zones behind story is a problem now that they have been doing it so long. .. I don't know, HATE that I'm forced to rush the MSQ because I want to gather, explore whatever.

I felt like the dungeons and trials were an overall downgrade. They felt far too repetitive and uninspiring especially the dungeon right before the final trial, it was a huge disappointment. The trials were also very bland imo. The story had a lot of plot holes and overall felt rushed and overly condensed. It's like they tried to take what would have been better as a 7.0, 7.1, and maybe a 7.2 arc and smashed it all together without fleshing out important parts of the story. I feel like if they ended 7.0 with Zaruel Ja as the final boss and everything that happens after was relegated to the post-MSQ patches it would have given the story the ability to tie up the loose ends. Have more time to explain things that need the proper time to explain and give the Scions more development and screentime.

I thought XVI was pretty bad and too long. You're the first I've seen actually willing to admit the pacing was bad. I do think EW was on the better side.

The story is trash. Everything else is good.

Nothing happened to Wuk. She literally gets kidnapped and was gonna be killed...

Fighting other Scions? Why, the challenges werent meant to be all about strength. If that was the case Zul dude would killed everyone.

I really do think that for this expansion, the majority of the thought processes were put into the upgraded graphics and changes like that... the story felt a bit secondary. Places are beautiful to show off the games new capabilities... but as usual, there's little to DO in those zones other than fates and msq. I took my time and explored a lot, which was honestly very enjoyable. But it still made me sad that that was the most I could really do - wander and gpose. I soooo wish there were things to actually explore in the world, fun things to find, perhaps NPCs existing outside of the obvious encampment areas or even mobs interacting with one another like that area in the tempest where one mob will actually eat another if it gets too close.

As for the story, I did enjoy it for the most part. I agree with you on the fact that the scions felt very wasted, most of the time I forgot they were even there with us. The lack of actual rivalry was super frustrating, you could almost tell from the start that Koana was going to back his sister, and they never really felt like they were actually going to go toe to toe at any point. I'm not sure if this is an issue related to catering towards Eastern tastes and Western tates in storytelling though. Maybe they need to start doing them separately, hit the same story beats but allow more difference in how those beats are hit in the east and west? I wanted proper rivalry! Stakes! Friendships tested, beliefs tested, or at least the foundation of something like that to be laid here.

And don't get me started on the lack of character our own WoL gets. I don't mind taking a back seat but half the time I can't even figure out why these village people are calling me 'friend' when I barely did anything other than what Wuk Lamat told me to. In their eyes, surely the WoL is no more important than the rest of our traveling party? When Wuk says she couldn't have done X without us, I was like... But you literally did. I didn't do anything other than smile and nod or grit my teeth.

Oh shit your definitely one of my favorite FF14 story reviewer and analyzer

I had a good time but I went into the story with low expectations. I think a lot of people went into this expansion with ew sb expectations.
I think everyone will appreciate this expansion more after future expansions because new stories have to start low in order to raise stakes and tension.

Also, rethinking the impression of an entertainment experience will almost always lower the experience, especially if you start comparing to other stories. Since comparisons are the thief of joy.

dawntrail 'felt' like it was an intermission to the next major story arc. I hope this story picks up, cause I was snoring through some of these story beats

I agree with alot of what you said. i feel like the abruptness between the two halves was jarring.I think Bakool Ja Ja being turned into a good guy was annoying and felt rushd for how bad he was. kind of tired of the heres abad guy but actually he is bad for a good reason kind of thing. In a vacuum I did enjoy the mamool Ja story though like if all that stuff didnt happen before. Like Bakool Ja Ja let out a terrible beast that could destroy the continent but we are just gonna forgive him like that? idk the 95 dungeon was just great to me and I feel like the baby story adds weight to it. I also agree that Zoraal Ja having a son just didnt fit to me. I mean it wasnt terrible but it was like what? the Krile parents scene did make me feel things and i loved that scene. And actually when Vrtra came in and helped fight and take down the airships, I loved that. I had the biggest smile on my face and it was awesome seeing him fight. Also I liked the final zone but it kind of just felt bad that it looked like crap when we were done. Also it felt alot like Endwalkers last zone in structure. same with the Final fight. it felt just like endsinger and when Wuk Lamat came in I literally started singing the phase 2 song of endsinger cause it was like "havent we done something like this before?" lol. (thats a small gripe i actually didnt care much). Idk i enjoyed it, Its easy to point out the flaws more than the good things. Im not mad at it though. Glad I played it. plus im loving pictomancer. also, Liked and Subbed

Was nodding my head in agreement for this entire video. Still enjoyed my time with DT, but I feel like there was so much left on the table

This MSQ was handled like a DnD group where the DM invites a new player to the table, hands them a lvl 10 Character sheet to catch up with everyone else, and proceeds to protect and shield them from every meaningful development flaw while they demand to dip their hand into every single scenario, be it their business or not, and try to peace-solve every single battle, and the DM goes along with it, and when there's a threat of losing that character in combat, give them god-bending powers and outshine everybody else. And the worst part is that the DM insists that every player already present say nothing but nice things, or say nothing at all in 'stunned silence'. That's what this was.

This expansion's MSQ reminded me too much of what WoW Twitter was at Shadowlands and it struck a nerve. What a way to air the laundry.

Several people have pointed out that the Mamool Ja's reasoning was well explained in the story and after consideration I agree. That was a mistake on my part. I still maintain that it was poor storytelling because it was introduced and resolved far too quickly, and it resulted in Bakool Ja Ja becoming a good guy with zero consequences for his previous actions. It could have been set up and executed better. I hope my error in using it as an example can be forgiven and I stand by my critique of CBU3's storytelling overall.