Noodle Lied & Why AAA Games Actually Suck

Wonder if Noodle will ever address this lol.

That said, I've listened to their Please Stop Talking podcast that he's been on every now and then.

The stories are funny, sure, and they're the central focus of every episode. But I don't believe for a second that their stories are 100% legitimate/not collaborative conjecture.

Part of me always wondered if they would find a weird niche thing on the Internet and construct a story they "experienced" so that niche thing can act as evidence.

Damn. I did feel Noodle's video was kinda aggressive towards people saying that games should be good, but i didnt think he spliced the videos. I agreed with what he said, but I kept thinking "how did anyone say this????" which the answer to that was, nobody did.

The list of game studios was hilarious, I wish I had paid attention to it. Noodle even said the reason as to why Black Box failed in his Need For Speed video by talking about how they were pushed through "a yearly meat grinder" by EA



also with the whole shareholders part (which i loved) it's not that they lost 100 million dollars, it's actually that they earned 100 million dollars, but they wanted 1 billion dollars instead

Noodle: “Don’t harass creators mentioned in my video. We are here to have a discussion.”
Noodle: >purposefully lies to his audience

Congratulations on the views on this one CJ well deserved especially after the year you had and almost leaving. I hope this shows you that you are wanted here. ✌️

hey cj, i remember you had a video on your channel that had a compilation of gladiator 1v1s layered with an instrumental. i was wondering if you possibly unlisted that as i would really love to watch it again, it was one of my favorite videos when i was younger. i really wanted to emulate you. as always i appreciate your channel

I really hate that there are bozos in your comments who have just been waiting for a “detailed” dissenting comment giving those comments likes, then retreating back into whatever sour spot they crawled from. The ability for a person to make something in bad faith is apparently inconceivable to these people, particularly as this video has come and gone, seemingly without affecting Noodle in any particular way.

That isn’t a diss on you, by the way, I think your video was simultaneously fun and informative. One of my favorite moments was dissecting which companies noodle sites as “being ruined for daring to go bigger with their vision” and one of those companies made the gollum game.

Its saddening to see that a video, made with such spite and insincerity, can still be lauded as “correct” or “righteous”, as if noodle is some kind of internet medium or messiah figure.

I’m begging you, any of you people who still believe noodle’s video is “morally upstanding/the correct, infallible opinion” to look at literally any community and spot their bad actors. Its in every one, without fail, and see what these bad actors are motivated by. This video shouldn’t offend anyone by deconstructing/demonstrating how one bad actor managed to make a video serving their interests.

Immeditate flashbacks to MGS2 when you mentioned creating context.

This video really vindicated something I've felt about Noodle for the last year (and even a couple others, maybe only comparatively so) that when it comes to being a creator, snark can kill you 5 times over.

Why do you get mad at Noodle for “calling gamers balding manchildren”, then make multiple unfunny jabs about Nelson being bald?

Seeing this i thought this was some small nonsense. while i watched noodles video i did not take it at face value. so i decided to watch this and see your points.

It makes sense. you are kinda right here.
But i don't think noodle is trying to laugh at our faces and spit in our mouths i think its less of that and more of the lack of research before hand. Because lets be real.. if noodle knew the info you knew, he would haev not really made the video. But in my opinion i think he was just scrolling on twitterand found it out. and while he did research he did not so much that he could have all context. while he did have CONTEXT, he was missing some main good picecs. Thats why even if his video is extremely different, i dont really blame noodle entirely. for it.

also good video

Could someone explain what audio stitching is? Im not used to editing lingo and don't really know what I'm supposed to focus on.

Baldur's Gate 3 has ruined games for me for the next few years, and shows how much i deserve as a fan of gaming as a hobby, who pays out the prices i do. It is such an amazing game that even my wife who doesnt like games beyond Sims, has pumped in more hours than i have in the game over the course of sevetal months, within owning it for a month. Shes obsessed and i couldnt be happier.

I dont think his entire point is a strawman infact i have seen plenty of people exhibit this behavior of setting a standard to every new game that does well. Look at palworld thats had a huge discourse because of how it does more than nintendos games. Noodle also had a video about interpolation that had a similar premise. The video talked about people using AI to upscale and create more frames in animation whether the creator liked it or not. The biggest response to him was "it looks better" "it is superior" "animators should meet the new standard" it goes on but you get my point.

Honestly, I think this video serves as a decent enough counterpoint to noodle's pro-developer stance -- though this video acts like that stance is ardently pro-big publishers when it isn't and noodle condemned several associated practices in the original video. I would say there's more overlap between this video's points and noodle's points than CJ would want you to believe. The big difference in opinion here is that, to noodle, AAA developers are the same as any others. While, to CJ, the crux of the entire argument is that they are unequivocally not.

Which gets to some of the noodle-centric issues I have with this video: all of the noodle attacks feel unwarranted and poorly justified. If you wanted to discredit him, go more into his alleged misinterpretation of the discourse. Because just saying no one ever pointed to Baldur's Gate 3 as a 'new standard' in gaming is easily disproven by anecdotes. Then detail why AAA developers should not be given the same good faith as lower-budgeted ones. Beyond the obvious: MONEY BAD. You know, actually counter his arguments instead of insisting he's a non-funny corporate skill who's full of sh**. It's ironic you call noodle out on making fun of gamurz and some of the creators he uses for examples, all the while saying far more offensive things about him. If you're going to take the high ground, take the high ground.

Ad hominem aside, according to these comments the biggest hit to noodle's credibility was the LegacyKilla edit. But I fail to see how any of his editing of the clip is indicative of malice. noodle said that the narrative that's dominated the discussion was that Baldur's Gate 3 scares AAA devs, and LegacyKilla's comment -- with or without the reprieve for lower-budget developers -- supports that. Debatably only tangentially, but it supports it nonetheless. Anyone who's ever quoted a source can assume noodle removed that middle thought because it had no baring on what he was saying, and just made for a sloppy comment overall. Hence why [...] is a commonly used quote break in academia. As for the audio stitching, it still very obviously looks like a video cut -- unless the assertion is noodle wanted the audience to think LegacyKilla made that cut. So it was likely done just to make the clip look better. Regardless, the cut-out interim only matters if noodle's argument was built around the difference between AAA and AA. But it's not. Your argument is.

what a waste of time

I like the video, except for the Internet Historian "glorifying alt-right greentexts" claim. Gonna need an example of that to believe it. Sure, he covered greentexts, but alt-right ones?

I dreamt noodle made a response to this..and it was so bad. I dunno what he said in the dream, but you were basically destroying bro.

Dude's voice sounds like a combination of Chappelle and Weezy.

The virgin shill Noodle vs the chad gamer circletoonsHD

I watched Noodle's video when it came out, shortly after I watched the IGN video Noodle ended up quoting. I like Noodle, I think his content is great, and so I put on the video, listened to him talk, and moved on. I didn't think about his argument, really. The whole Baldur's Gate drama was annoying and I didn't feed into it too much.

I just now watched this whole thing, having rewatched Noodle's video and the sources to some of the clips Noodle referenced. I honestly don't know what to think. Noodle's video missed the point and made a rebuttal to an argument nobody made. I'm shocked he went so far as to cherry pick out of context evidence to back up his point. I hope he makes a response soon, as I want to trust Noodle and watch his videos without thinking of how it can be manipulative. He made some of my favorite videos on the platform.

However, I don't take issue with Noodle making money. IRS themed merch drops and the popsicle stick collector's items are things I wouldn't buy, but it's a way to support a creator and get a fun thing in return. That dying light sponsorship enabled him to make a unique short film that would've been too risky, expensive, and time consuming had he financed it himself. The "making of" video wasn't bragging about the money he made, it was a way to thank Dying Light for enabling the project to happen and acknowledge the people who worked on it.

Regardless of all of this, I don't think I'm gonna stop watching Noodle. I watch videos for entertainment. I didn't care if Dream's Minecraft Manhunts were staged or if his speedruns were faked because the videos told a good story and I had fun watching them. Noodle's sense of humor is fun and his videos are entertaining, and even if this most recent outing is misleading, I still have fun watching his videos, I will just take it with a grain of salt from now on, and watch it as entertainment and not as a source of information.

You’re fucking dope. I love your voice your editing your points and the genuine nature your video already has. I’m gonna sub and others should too. Thanks for the video!!

did the ending change? i watched this video at the start of the year, and I remember the very end point doing that catering meme of "but in the defense of noodle-" and the video ends or something. I FEEL LIKE IM HAVING A FEVER DREAM WHERE WAS THAT

Possibly unrelated, but I remember a movement from a few years ago that was dedicated to outing bad actors in the video game industry. Keep up the good work. Maybe one day we’ll get our hobby back.

I am five minutes into this video and already you there are two glaring mistakes with your argument.

First and foremost: You claim that Noodle was strawmaning his position while ignoring that he showed the reaction of people who were arguing for that "raised standard", he bothered to actually show the IGN video. He isn't strawmaning, this is an idea many people have had and it is indeed dangerous

Second, and somehow even worse: You then immediately strawman yourself by refusing to show Nelson's actual tweets and rearranging what he said to fit your narrative and then follow it up with a bad impersonation of the IGN guy. If your gonna criticize someone for doing something, it is not fair to do the same thing yourself immediately afterword (Also, I don't know your race but having the picture of the white IGN reporter calling Nelson the n-word is just not ok, at all. Even if you yourself are black it ain't ok to strawman a white guy calling a black guy the n word and somehow treat the white guy like he's in the right. Just... don't have him say the n-word at all)

Also, continuing your strawman of the IGN reporter it becomes clear that you missed the entire point that both Noodle and Nelson were making. The only standard Nelson was pushing back against was the scale of Baldur's Gate III, not the quality but your IGN strawman is just ignoring that point entirely to continue your strawman of Noodle

8 minutes in: Yeah no, those are quite definitionally exceptional circumstances. The average size of the entire team for a AAA game is around 150, working with OVER TRIPLE the average is very exceptional and games basically never get a beta that lasts 3 YEARS. Most major AAA games have 5 month betas if they have a beta at all. Everything he lists is in fact, quite exceptional, and you are just way to lazy to do even a modicum of statistical research (you're only evidence is anecdotal, for every GTA 5 there is a mountain more of Ubisoft shitstains). GTA 5 is another anomaly, it does not help your argument like you think it does.

In regards to the IGN guys portion 8 minutes in, his list of employees doesn't take into account the fact that AAA game studios split their teams across multiple games and practically never work on just one game at a time. Impressive numbers sure, reflective of the actual development cycle they are not (besides can you even manage trying to get literally 1,000 people to all work on the same thing together, no director could ever want that)

At the 14 minute mark you actually manage to say something technically correct, games should deliver on what they promise. And guess what, Nelson and Noodle both agree with that sentiment the only thing they argued against was expecting the same scale

And then right after you go back to nonsense. The IP backing Baldur's Gate III still matters, it gave them access to more resources financially, a larger audience outreach (established IP's tend to have a much greater reach than new IP's, have you ever wondered why so many of the most talked about games are whatever the new Call of Duty is that year, or a sequel to something people already like (I. E. God of War, GTA VI, Red Dead Redemption 2) that helps boost the success of the game regardless of quality, and more stuff to draw from when actually making the game (lore, characters, and mechanics). It is far easier to draw from something that already exists than coming up with something on your own

As for your google search comparison chart, you fail to consider the very distinct probability that the success of Honour Among Thieves both critically and financially gave WoTC more money to give to team Larian for Baldur's Gate

At this point continuing your video is really just a waste of time. Your evidence is flimsy at best and despite criticising strawmaning you yourself are running with one massive strawman argument. It's clear you made video as nothing more than a reaction because you didn't like that your viewpoint was being called out for being unfounded and (considering your reactions to people in the comments) love to throw stones from your glass house. Go outside and touch some grass

Brilliant, well executed video (I was waiting for that statement in the very end to be said.)

I think the only meaningful thing I gained from Noodle’s video is discovering Nelward’s music from the outro.

this has become one of my fav vids of all time, amazing job and keep it up. sometimes you require a different perspective and you can ascertain someone as who they truly are

So as someone completely unfamiliar with you and noodle, at first I thought it was some long-winded drama baiting.

About half way, I was enjoying your style and figured noodle is at worst, willfully ignorant and cherry picking to land his bad take.

Then the audio stitching. How the hell do you defend that? It's like telling the cop: "All I ate was beans, eggs, oats, yogurt, coffee, steak and 1lb of elephant laxative. There was no intention to cause a scene."

Sorry are you implying star citizen might not have shitty monetisation?? What.

that final line.... MMMM so based!

Cyberpunk 2077 has been patched. Its better now, yeah?

I think for Noodle there's a mixture of things.
He seems to be huffing his own farts a lot lately, on top of, as you pointed out, asking for money a lot more frequently.
Though I will say, to try and not cope too much about Internet Historian, I feel there is a difference Internet Historian and Noodle.
IH would likely admit some videos were to fill in gaps of time between bigger videos and get sponsorships on said smaller videos, I get the impression he'd at least be honest about that.
With Noodle, I feel like he would just squirm away from admitting that and say something about "muh capitalism" or something to the extent of "I'm just a silly little guy trying to make money in this capitalist system."

Guy makes one bad video and all of a sudden he's fucking evil 💀

Just throwing out there that Josh Sawyer (Fallout New Vegas, Pillars of Eternity) agreed with Nelson's whole thread. Quote:

“Great thread. The conditions under which BG3 was made are atypical. This is in no way a slight against the game or the people working on it, who are clearly passionate and talented. Having the foundation set and the funding to build things on your own terms is invaluable.”

Man this was a banger and I'm still like 70% through rn

This comment section is a wretched hive of scum and villainy.

This video is dog water.

When I first saw his video, I came away from it thinking "well there was a miscommunication between the intentions of the original tweet thread and what the gaming community were praising Baldurs Gate 3 for." I don't think I've heard of anyone say "this game too small, MAEK BIG PLS". In fact, I've heard many people say that games are too long, filled with fluff, and announced way too early. I just like games that work well, regardless of whether they're 30 mins or require weeks to just beat. That legacykilla clip edit to remove context just makes me upset with noodle. It's literally a few seconds, so you couldn't argue "cut for time". The fact alone that the audio and video are edited differently to make it seem like it flows, it just reeks.

He seems to have this "I don't have a hate-boner for gamers and I think they're great but also I hate all of them with a burning passion" mentality, basically thinking that gamers are "too stupid for their own good/betterment". He just conjures up this idea of what gamers are like based on what he sees online, and that's one of the worst things you can do considering most of the people you would see saying stupid things are already terminally online people.

As much as I love game devs, they aren't infallible and shouldn't be treated as such. Game devs are people, and I don't think a studio like game mill should be praised because "being a game dev is so hard you gotta walk both ways uphill in the snow while doing kegels". A few dumb tweets directed at game devs, a community's opinion does not make. Many gamers (yes, even the stinky smelly ones) are grateful for the devs when they make good games. There isn't some conspiracy by gamers foaming at the mouths ready to send death threats to people just for existing. Sometimes games are just bad, and people don't wanna buy them.

It's also ironic that Noodle is on this gamedev defending arc, tweeting about how mad he is that people are "harassing blizzard devs" in overwatch 2 steam reviews, when he himself was making fun of how bad overwatch was not long before that.

The censor sounds, especially the mario64 ones were very nice, i really liked how the video was structured like an extended rant.

I didnt even watch noodle's original video, but i like this type of exposing videos

"The man creates the forks, handle the torch, and let the fools start riots"