the /hj tone indicator is worse than useless

I never want to see another definition of /hj ever again

My friends always use /hj as "this is a complete joke but it's funnier if you think I'm a little bit serious right now" and it annoys me SO MUCH

must be a really bad hj

My take on orange juice person is they are not actually very funny, and did not realize that using the word “absurd” already indicates that they are making a joke

I feel like I see the disconnect here, and it's funny because both you and the example you chose show the exact same disconnect from opposite sides. You can't understand that there is no "Which half of the statement is joking", the whole statement is half-joking. It is expressing the ambiguity which you are trying to dissect. From the other side, it's the same reason why that poster can't understand "/j /g". You both see the contradiction of a statement that is a blend of two different tones.

It's like how a memory can be bittersweet, or you can experience a painful longing. Just like you can have two simultaneous or mixed feelings, so too can you have two simultaneous or mixed tones. Since you did a video on solresol, I think it would be like asking someone to explain what the resultant note when you played a two-note chord means. It would make no sense if you don't have a definition for the superposition of two notes, it violates the time-differentiated nature of sequential notes upon which communication in solresol operates.

The interpretation that both serious and joking are wrong interetations of the statement is incorrect, it's that they're both right

A lot of people in my circle use /silly instead of /hj! It breaks the three letter pattern, but it lets us tell that it's silly but not necessarily untrue. Sometimes we use /gen with /silly for things that're true but not serious, but /lh can be used and it's simpler. /nsrs can also be used, and is more widely recognized. Just depends on the vibes. Also we use /th (threat) occasionally for a joke threat, usually followed by a /j in parentheses or a /silly to show that it's just a bit.

This is kinda a complex system though, so I generally only use it with people who already use tonetags. /hj is hella confusing and I almost never see it used, I feel like I have but I can't remember. Sorry if this was a lot, I just really love talking about niche things I like! As someone who struggles with tone and worrying about being misinterpreted, these little tags can help me when among people who understand them.

I personally tend to use clarifying words in brackets with people who might not know or want to learn tone indicators, like "I'M IN DESPAIR [silly]" or what have you. Sorry for the long comment, have some engagement.

whenever i see /hj my brain goes straight to "hust jidding" (think "just kidding" except the first letters replaced)
and then i forget what /hj really means.

huh yeah i have a different way of using it, i usually use it as the statement being a joke but also wouldn't be surprised or opposed to it being true- an example being "you should wash my dishes for me /hj" i don't really expect the person to do my dishes but also wouldn't say no if they actually did do them- another example being a statement about a group being unaccommodating to autistic people and saying "what do you expect from a group run by neurotypicals" it's a half joke because i can't really know for sure if all the people running it are neurotypicals because there could be non-neurotypicals running the group but they're allistic and still don't accommodate for autistic people, but i also wouldn't be surprised if i was right and it was run by all neurotypicals- i can also see it used in a statement like "i hate myself" where i do actually hate myself but i want it to be more said as a joke so people don't take me too seriously or act too concerned for me, but i don't think think i'd use that much so maybe that's more of a self deprecating joke than much use with tone tags- but yeah i agree it can be very confusing especially trying to figure out what other people mean when they use it different from me-

ill be honest, i think you are taking quite a prescriptive understanding of how lamguage works. i dont like tone tags because for me, they unmuddy the waters of language in a way that actively detracts from the meaning of statements. what i mean by this is that there is meaning in the degree of clarity a statement has. the fact that there is a tone indicator that literally identifies that there is not a clear cut meaning is very good evidence of this.

i dont even remember the last time i saw /hj

Wait HJ means "half joking"??

I agree with the point about simply rewriting the original post to make it more clear rather than using a tone indicator, but I'd like to add that I feel like /s and /j are exceptions to that. When you're joking or being sarcastic, you can't simply reword the original post in a clearer way while retaining the original intent of the post. For example, if I say, "That's great/s" I'm trying to be sarcastic and most-likely funny. Therefore, I can't simply rewrite the post in a clearer manner- say by writing "That's bad"- because then you're not being sarcastic anymore and the comedy is lost. A similar principle applies to /j. If you take the time to explain the fact that you're joking within the joke, you kill the humor in the process. For example, if I comment "I'd rather kill myself /j", I can't simply write, "I actually have no intentions of killing myself and am simply expressing how unpleasant of an experience that would be" because that kills the humor. On the other hand however, if I don't put /j, or /s in the first scenario, then I'm speaking in a more ambiguous way than intended, so the tone indicator is useful in that scenario. Anyways this was a good video, I just thought that you missed an exception in which using a tone indicator provides and advantage rewriting the original post to be more clear other than just convenience for the writer.

P.S. I was incredibly tempted to put /hj at the end of that paragraph because I though it would've been incredibly funny, but I didn't want my original point to be lost because it is something I genuinely believe in, and I didn't want to just make it seem like an elaborate bit. I think what I wrote is a valid contribution to the conversation, even if someone might've echoed the sentiment- I didn't check every comment to see-, so I didn't want my idea to be written off as just for a joke. (Yes, I was tempted to do it at the end of this P.S. too; I have a problem)

I've always thought half joking is when people make like a self derogatory joke, but they're the kind of person that you have an inkling they may believe it. So, it's like a lil casual "inside joke" (like something only a good friend might understand. but instead of a joke, it's just getting a little something off of your chest in one of the least serious ways.) And, it's a joke bc there's a whole like dark humor thing where it fits in as a funny joke.

The best way to interpret /hj is as "exaggeration for the sake of comedy while meaning the value behind it". The orange juice one is so bad because what's "absurd" is so subjective that depending where you drawn the line it could be 4 cartons of it or 50. As an example I'll make one myself "I watched the last episode of game of thrones and I'm literally gonna burn down their studio /hj." Like yeah you aren't gonna actually burn the studio down, but the idea behind it is that you got so angry at the quality that you wish you could take it out.

i feel like the main way people use /hj are the same way people use /lh

/hjjjtfgjhhjh

When i saw "I'm going to buy an absurd amount of orange juice /hj"
I immediately thought that they meant they may or may not just rock up with a lot of orange juice.

Like maybe it's just a joke... But maybe it's not. So sorta like joking, except maybe the really will on whim buy a lot of orange juice to leave on their ex's doorstep or whatever ridiculous context of the joke.

Like eg. We're planning a picnic and what to bring. "I'm gonna buy an absurd amount of orange juice /hj" means they might actually buy 4 litre litres of orange juice. Or maybe they were just joking and won't buy orange juice at all. The ambiguity of /hj allows for a non-commital response. It's that third definition- ambiguous on purpose, maybe they will maybe they won't, maybe the don't know yet or maybe it's just a surprise.

It's not really joking for sure, nor is it sarcastic or even literal for sure. More of a lighthearted maybe. It doesn't have to be literal or not. It's just deliberate ambiguity where it could go eiher way. In essence, that counterintuitive cryptic impracticality is the spirit of english and a language and tool for conversation itself. And i kinda love it.

I only really use /hj with friends because we all share a braincell and know to a degree what I’m talking about

I just realized very recently that I am autistic, and this video served as a pretty shocking revelation as to just how autistic I really was all along

schrodinger's tone indicator

They're buying enough orange juice for some people to see it as absurd but they don't see it as absurd duh

/handjob

"Neurotypical people" you mean normal people.

We don't normally use intent indicators, and half-joking isn't one we've used in text.

But, when we consider ourselves to be half-joking, it tends to be playful teasing.

Like, "you're such a pain…" when a close friend forgot their wallet by accident and you need to pay for both of your tickets. They are inconveniencing you in some capacity, but you aren't upset at them for it. Like… It's not entirely a joke, their mistake has you covering for them. But it's not serious either, you're not upset, or annoyed — but if they keep making that mistake, perhaps you may start getting annoyed.

Generally, half-jokes aren't something we do with people that we do not at the very least share a friend circle with, or are family to.

Half-jokes require some level of mutual understanding in order to function.

At least by our definition.

I'm also autistic & this is me with basically every tone indicator except /s, /j, /srs, /g (/gen). Keeping track of all of them is painful to me too, you get me. 😭

I started this video thinking "oh I know what half-joking means! It's simple!" And now I'm half way through and having a crisis

I understand what you're saying
but this is like a blind person complaining that people use colors as an adjective because they can't see or comprehend colors. /hj

See my statement is completely literal, but i'm using /hj specifically because you don't like it, so that way it in itself acts as my punchline

Now MY definition of half-joking is using a completely true statement as a punchline to a longer joke in context, and shouldn't be used randomly for single one-liner gags

I'll give the final definition of /hj. It means "ask a clarifying question"

Reddit

I don't think tone indicators are an accessibility tool. They came about as a defence mechanism for people to avoid confrontation when they know the text they're writing can be interpreted in many ways. That's why many of them aren't that helpful. They're meant to serve the writer, not the reader. Some people have repurposed them as accessibility tools but many haven't. It's essentially two different languages that use a common set of words.

Used as a defence mechanism /hj means "yeah I mean this but I don't wanna get into an argument about it" or "I'm aware this is ridiculous but I fully intend on doing it anyway and you have to deal with that".

So your example "I'm going to buy an absurd amount of orange juice /hj" most likely means "I'm going to buy a lot of orange juice, so much orange juice that many people would think is an absurd amount. But this is the amount of orange juice I'm going to buy regardless"

If you see /hj in the wild the best thing for you to do is read it as "this is a serious statement or sentiment but I'm not going to defend my position on the matter"

That might not cover every case, but having that as a first assumption whenever you see the tag should help limit the amount of dissection you need to do.

Personal opinion, tone indicators are one of the worse ways to do the disambiguating of written text thing. I greatly prefer the parentheses method used at least once in the video, as among other things it doesn't require deciphering a new set of internet runes to understand. As for /hj, I dunno how people use it, I don't really talk with many people that use tone indicators like that, but it would make sense to me if it extrapolated from a comment to the tune of "I'm half joking" made after a statement. In which case, the two most common uses would be "For legal reasons, this is a joke, calm down Mr. FBI" or expressing a genuine belief hyperbolically and then signalling as such, with the intent of letting the reader decide which values/beliefs are actually underpinning the statement made. For instance "We should burn down a police station. /hj" would first of all act as an example of both (because again, tone indicators suck), but also carries a substantial number of possible beliefs underlying the statement. Could be ACAB sentiment, could be anarchism, could be anti-authoritarian, could be anti-govt, etc. Ultimately tho, tone indicators are not an accessibility tool in the way that is being claimed, and anecdotally I have seen much greater support for other forms of disambiguating among neurodivergent people.

lmao. Communication is a joke iswear. this whole time i was reading /hj like jan does in the video, but with an bit extra.
Like, it isn't just a possibility that 1 half of the comment is joking - the whole comment could possibly be the joke. But with /hj, i perceived the commenter as saying "ik the tone isn't specific and whether you think it is wholly a joke, half a joke, or completely serious. I stand by it in all ways/idgaf."

ik it seems super general but...how do i explain this....
It kind of like tacit permission for possible misunderstandings.

And like, that was so helpful to me lol. Only to find out today that I have to GUESS which part is the joke!? And they do gaf!? /crying/also omg i must've embarrassed myself sm

so, I think I found an example of a half joke.

I follow a recruiter on LinkedIn, and he will do joke posts where he will start by doing a normal motivational post, but then go off into unhinged “advice” like to tell the interviewer about your entire health history and to have them go ahead and set up time off requests over the next 5 years. The actual posts will be longer than this description and will be funny on the face of it.

but the point is to both make a joke but also hint at a larger point, which is both the “serious” version of the advice, in the example above, it would be that it actually is important to be upfront about your need for accommodation, while also laughing at the insanity of finding a “career job” in this labor economy…so, it’s a “half joke” because you can engage with it purely as a joke, or you can engage with the “non joke” aspects.

Does anyone remember when sarcasm was alternating capitals and lower case?

"wOw tHaT's sO GrEaT!!!"

just take /hj as just being a little bit silly/hj

every time I saw one of these I thought it was just a typo

/hj signifies second level irony. This can include post irony or meta irony, as opposed to /j, which is regular irony.

While /hj is literally a joke, I feel like it fall under satire. Satire, I consider a subcategory of joking. "We have this thing. What happens when we Post irony is going through a layer of sencerity back.

While meta irony is where the underlying opinion of the person is ambiguous, either because they want to feel out ideas (I'm pretty much a furry /hj), avoid criticism from the outgroup by being able to play things off as a joke, (whaaaaat, me a furry? Noooooo... /hj) or a satire on satire itself- pushing satire to its logical conclusion about how confusing the concept of irony itself is ( (((( I'm not a furry) /hj) JK (unless)/hj) /j )
/hj))

i feel like the main use of /hj is just to let you know its not the other tone indicators. You say that its more confusing than no tone indicator, but I think its use is just so you know that its not specifically sarcastic, joking, or serious. The question is then "what the hell else is it then?", but that's the thing, human language and communication is, at times, just ambiguous. The way to look at it is not, "what does /hj mean?", it's "oh this user wants to let me know there's not a black and white way to look at this specific statement".

"I'm going to buy an absurd amount of orange juice /srs" means that they're going to buy a lot of orange juice.
"I'm going to buy an absurd amount of orange juice /j" means that they are not going to buy a lot of orange juice and the statement is funny.
"I'm going to buy an absurd amount of orange juice /s" is dependent on the situation as most sarcasm is, but implies something is not earnest about the statement.
"I'm going to buy an absurd amount of orange juice /hj" likely means something like "I'm not going to buy an insane amount of orange juice but I really like orange juice and am going to buy some and I want to overdramatize it for the sake of humor."


Which can be confusing, and i prefer the tumblr way more. Which is just putting the tone, intent, or other context in brackets next to the sentence. It reminds me of a lot of rpgs where there'll be a dialogue option like "No. I didn't kill your husband". The meaning depends on what flags your character has; if you killed the husband, you'd get the option "No. I didn't kill your husband (lie)" and if you didn't, you'd get the option "No. I didn't kill your husband (truth)". The tumblr context brackets are like you getting to see what flags the person writing the joke has.

It leads to people being able to tell jokes in a humorous but helpful way. It reveals information about the author's point of view that usually serves to make the statement funnier or easier to understand. For example, "last week I bought 3 cartons of orange juice and for some reason I'm breaking out (allergic to citrus)", it lets you know the context (the author is allergic to citrus) and why the statement might be funny (they're aware that they are breaking out due to their allergy; they are being sarcastic) without the writer having to write a preface, or leave it up to interpretation by just saying /s.

Sure there's times where people say stuff like "hey girlie <3 (with intent to kill)" but tumblr humor is very much related to hyperbole and oxymoron, so if something seems very dramatic there's a good chance the person writing is making a joke. Of course this type of joke depends on the context of the situation. I will not continue discussing this topic lest I just end up writing a video script myself (autistic and very excited about language and communication).

okay maybe i am autistic i have been thinking this exact shit for so long it makes absolutely no sense

Half joking usually meants what you're communicating is something you actually want on some level, but wouldn't actually pursue.

Or you're presenting a perspective that on some level you are actually symathetic towards but not to the extent thats being stated in the "half joking" comment. Usually intentionally hyperbolic statements.

But other times its also used to test the waters by saying something without fully committing, in case it isn't recieved well. Like the " we should do x, just kidding...unless"

My favorite tone indicator is /dn

i always thought /hj meant like "i'm joking about this, but i'm going to be completely honest i am slightly serious this"

I feel like you are misunderstanding half-joking. It's not one half is a joke and the other half is not, it's that you say it as if it's a joke, but you're also serious. e.g. "I'm gonna buy an absurd amount of orange juice /hj" I'm actually going to buy a lot of orange juice, but it also works as a joke

i am an autistic person who is not confused by the /hj tone indicator or the concept of half joking. i struggle quite a bit with sarcasm and some jokes but half joking is one of those things i get. AND YET

i have watched this video four times and i am still baffled by the “absurd amount of orange juice” example. it may be the most confusing /hj use case ive ever seen

omw to make a reddit bot that sends a link to this video every time someone says “/hj”

/hj just sounds like hyperbole with extra steps.

as a neurotypical I've always hated /hj because 90% of the time I see it used it's to be passive aggressive or rude without consequences, like you can just be negative but "I'm also joking!!"

I thought I knew how to interpret /hj, but when you gave the examples I bugged