The Only Time Murder is Okay

Here's a good example: Five Nights at Freddy's Ultimate Custom Night.
No, I'm not gonna explain the story. That'd take too long.

I personally distinguish like so:
Revenge is personal and therefore biased and unjustified.
Retribution is impersonal and potentially justifiable.

The motive matters.
Inigo hunts for his father not himself, he isn't a selfish character in any way. He is a caring friend.

can you o shadow slave ples

murder... but it's ok this time. The CIA trying to overthrow a democraticly elected goverment that just so happens to want universal healthcare and goverment fundet edication system in central america and south america

I think revenge can be good or bad

Yup, for one particular person I don't think there are limits to what I would do if guaranteed that I wouldn't be caught.

Tales of Berseria has a wonderful protagonist that shows where people find their line of where revenge goes too far. Major Spoilers

The protagonist, Velvet Crowe, goes immense lengths to get her revenge on the villain who murdered her little brother Laphicet.

Her desire for revenge goes so far as to drag others into her journey. Kidnapping, arson, murder, assault, all sorts of things you’d really not route for.

That being said, Velvet does show there’s a line that she dares not to cross when it comes to her revenge story, until you find out that her brother wanted to be killed that day, because it was all in the name of saving the world. Velvet realizes that the line she refused to cross was miles behind her. Additionally, she killed a brother and sister, realizing she’s as bad as the man she hated. All those atrocities she committed were for nothing. And she’s so crushed about it to the point the boy she kidnapped had to wake her up out of her crushed state of mind to remind her that there’s more to it than she realizes, giving her a second shot at revenge, but for a different reason.

I’d go into details as to why, but I’ll only spoil so much.

“The greatest revenge is not becoming your enemy.”

the culture I come from basically views someone that wishes revenge if it is rightous is blessed and aided by a god, and to get in their way is to go against that god, we also believe that a spirit of vengence inhabits their body and only getting their vengence will release them from the spirit's hold

Well, Nidhogg engaged in a never-ending war with Ishgard because of the founders' actions towards his sibling so...

This war went on for 1000+ years lorewise, until you, the player character, ended him. :S

"Revenge is a dish best served cold."
-Old Klingon proverb

You took 15 years from me Sonny, now I'm gonna make you pay!!

The thing about dishonoured is that the good and bad endings aren't tied to morality, but chaos. You don't get the good ending by having mercy, not spilling blood, but by going unnoticed, leaving no trace of your passing, which I find to be a very interesting approach to a morality system.

I was thinking of the film “The harder they fall” (which I recommend highly!) where the plot is started by the result of a revenge plot which then creates another revenge plot which becomes the main narrative we follow through the story. It was interesting how they present the justifications of either character.

Bro why is this channel better than my philosophy classes

Yes;
As it said, Don Ramon, the Wise: "Revenge is never full; It poisons the soul and kill it too!"

You also sell 2 men into slavery in dishonored

An eye for an eye
Leaves the world blind.

I think you didn't quite understand dishonored endings, you don't get good or bad endings based on what you do to your targets, you are allowed to do anything you want to them, you get endings based on chaos factor. If you kill too many guards and generally guys other than your targets, the chaos will increase and you'll get the bad ending.

I feel like most people know that revenge plots are wrong but nobody cares because why should we.

Theres this saying "Incompetence is the mother of all evil."
A Parent whose incompetent at being a parent can raise a child to be evil through abuse or on some form.
A person wanting revenge being incompetent that he is inefficient in achieving his goal can shed unnecessary blood.
A Government incompetent at ruling can birth people of all forms of evil such as corruption, crime and anarchy.

Ofcourse no one is perfect, hence the condition of our current world. But theres another saying
"A vessel of evil can be swayed with one wave of competence."
A child born from a dysfunctional family only requires one person competent at guiding and kindness to help the child grow into a wonderful person.
A man on the path of revenge can be stopped by a person competent in persuading them into the right path.
And all it takes is a single competent leader to take the lead and slap some sense to the government in order for a nation to stabilize.
Of course life isnt as simple as that, but thats where things start.

With revenge i think "Two wrongs don't make a right"

Id say ppl dont take revenge out if fear of the consequences taking that same revenge will result on

In real life people with Kataras personality are incapable of pulling there own weight so we all know that on a visceral level that's why the "revenge" wouldn't make sense she wouldn't have even found him without Zuko

The best revenge movie ever is “I spit on your grave”

To be honest, I need a villain who had the right to get revenge. Most of the time the character was already evil even before someone did something to them.

Katara choosing not to kill her mother's murderer makes sense within the story and for her character. The problem with things like Ellie's choice in The Last of Us 2 is just so ridiculous and nonsensical because she murders dozens of people before finally getting to Abby and then deciding not to kill her. There's so much narrative dissonance here and it's so incredibly frustrating, and is why so many people see TLoU2 as having bad writing. Katara's revenge would've been proportional, but she chooses not to kill anyway. For Ellie, she kills so many people that simply were in her way and it makes are their deaths absolutely worthless in the end due to her letting Abby go.

When you mentioned the thing with causalities on road to vengeance, I immediately thought of Undertale Yellow Genocide Route (which I won't spoil more than this)

dishonored 1 is one of smoothest game and best game ever since ot gives you freedom of being merciful or vengefull

Short answer: yes. If you get revenge you're willingly doing evil for the sake of revenge. Usually what's been done to you can't be undone so taking revenge is completely meaningless.

John Darnielle once said that it is a natural human desire to have a powerful, supernatural friend who loves you dearly and will completely destroy everybody who ever hurt you. Sometimes when I'm very upset and need catharsis I hum a few bars of "In League With Dragons" and it reminds me that someone who called me a rude name probably doesn't deserve to have their flesh roasted by dragonfire. I think it's good for the soul

"La venganza nunca es buena, mata el alma y la envenena"
Don Ramón-

Revenge is bad. Mercy is best punishment. Yeah. Cause no more harm, left the villain to love, watch him commit more evil. Rinse and repeat. In one thing you are right. Mercy is cruel, but not for villains.

After watching a bunch of your videos I can't help but wonder how you would fit a Michael Moorcock story into them.
Considering the lack of good and evil and the absence of a standardized morality it would be difficult.

could Berserk be considered a tale about revenge ? I ask because it's my favorite manga

Great video, though I was dissappointed that you didn't mention the absolute MASTER of disproportionate revenge, Kratos! The man who destroyed the entire world in his quest to kill Zeus.

In France, there is a book called "Le Cid"

It's about an old man who got insulted by a slap in the face, so he send his son to kill the person who slapped him

Who are we to judge revenge

In Rick And Morty Rick's revenge story is about him going through multiple obstacles and multiple people also he kills multiple innocent people that want to kill the same target as him. That being Rick Prime who killed every other Rick's (Ricks who appears in that episode) daughter and wife.
In the episode where this is happening Rick Finally manages to track down Rick Prime thanks to 'evil Morty' where are other Ricks going after Rick Prime. However Rick Prime knows why they are here and challenges them to battle with each other. Rick (Our, who is the main character of the show) outlives all of them. Yes it was self defence but if somehow he figured out a way to get to him with other Ricks it wouldn't have to end in the bloodshed it ended on.
In the end of the episode Rick finally gets his revenge for his wife and daughter but he starts to feel empty and that his life truly reached no meaning. He finally achieved what he wanted for so long, but at what cost?

>Revenge doesn't solve anything and only serves to indulge one's self

Wrong. It accomplishes that whatever wrong doing had a consequence instead of being a meaningless loss, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with indulging in selfish fulfillment, even if it means getting compensation for somthing forcibly taken from you.

This position that, "revenge solves nothing," is a mindset for cattle brained people unwilling to do anything about people walking all over them.

Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance is a good example of a revenge story and just how messy it is.

Based dishonored thumbnail

I have... Stuff related to revenge in my real life. I don't want to explain the whole deal, because it may be damaging, but... While I can't (and would never want to be able to) intervene directly, my opinion on it may matter in the future. I don't think this video changed my perspective, but it made me think about why I draw the line where I do, which is probably something I should think about.

oldboy, nuff said

Carrie killed alot of people that had nothing to do with what happened to her. Her idea of revenge is the same thing as a School Shooters and should NEVER be cheered on.

Personally, I think who the protagonist wants revenge on, why they want revenge, and how many other people are affected by it all decide whether revenge plots are evil or not.

As usual, stellar content. But... You talk about revenge, you even bring up video game examples... And yet somehow, The Last of Us Part II doesn't come up?! Ellie's revenge quest for revenge, that was fueled by Abby's quest for revenge and what ended up costing Ellie EVERYTHING is arguably the best revenge story I've seen.

Anime known as Attack on Titan at the end made example about revenge

It was one day in Bosnia
Several soldiers were there
There was a civil war, but
They knew they had to bare
The commander saw a village
He ordered it destroyed
But there was a voice of questioning
From the soldiers he employed

“What of the civilians?
They’re just living there
There are no enemy soldiers
Only townsfolk, we should spare
What of the crying people
Lamentations - do you care?”
The commander began his response
“I was born there”

“Yeah, you may think they’re innocent
But I’ve got knowledge to spare
They bullied and tortured
Oh, they were not fair
When I turned 13
They exiled me from there”
The soldiers began to know
Why they were there

“What of the civilians?
They’re just living there
There are no enemy soldiers
Only townsfolk, we should spare
What of the crying people
Lamentations - do you care?”
The commander’s voice echoed
“I was born there”

The soldiers lost the war, and
The UN came to that place
They put the men on trial
There was no debate
The commander was a killer
They had to seal his fate
The one question the judge asked
Oh, he had to come and say

“What of the civilians?
They were just living there
There are no enemy soldiers
Only townsfolk, you should’ve spared
What of the crying people
Lamentations - do you care?”
The commander began his response
“I was born there”

“Yeah, you may think that they’re innocent
But I’ve got a surprise for this day
They bullied me, and tortured
I had to make them pay
When I turned 13
They kicked me out of that place
Now, you foolish little justices
Are callin me a disgrace?”

“What of the civilians?
They’re just living there
There are no enemy soldiers
Only townsfolk, we should spare
What of the crying people
Lamentations - do you care?”
The commander’s voice echoed
“I was born there”

The general was let go
The UN has its justice
Several year ago
Anonymous began their busting
Their hackers and deputies
Though - he was bullied and tortured
They found it’s the wrong village
He wasn’t born there

“What of the civilians?
They’re just living there
There are no enemy soldiers
Only townsfolk, we should spare
What of the crying people
Lamentations - do you care?”
The commander’s voice echoed
“I was born there”

I believe there is one more aspect of a revenge plot that should have been mentioned. I think it could called something like villainous revenge or antagonistic revenge. Where the villain’s motives are that of revenge where something bad happened to them and they take revenge to the extreme. Like if their family was murdered by an evil magician and so they decide to kill all magicians, regardless of how innocent or good they are. A goal that is evil but is spawned of one bad experience