How Did Satan Fall If He Was With God? Sean McDowell.org

So did Lucifer sin in a perfect heaven?
Will I have freedom to chose to go against God when I am in heaven and get cast out? Is heaven a perfect sin free place if people and angels choose to leave God?

So Satan didn’t listen to a command and because of that hod will punish him forever and ever kind of a overreaction, that would be like a parent coming home and killing their children because they failed a test.

I was always taught that angels didn't have free choice, if so why create man?

So can we sin when we get to heaven?

Satan didn’t fall from heaven or commit sin. Satan was a tester for god and his people.

The New Testament lies and story telling made satan into the character that you perceive him to be.

You people are morons.

This video helps explain absolutely nothing 🤣🤣

So....in Heaven we will have free will? Hmmm... that woukd get real ugly real fast, eh? Lol I think you're trying to rationalize the irrational, but, ok.

If you ever want to finally realize the Truth, investigate Idealism/Nondualism.

Whoop, there it is. 🙌

Adam and Eve were given free will and he built sin right into the garden and Gods hands were tied, he had to do it this way for free wills sake. But in heaven it’s understood that you have free will but you don’t want to sin and sin is no longer a choice you will make. So why didn’t God just create Adam and Eve this way if it was possible all along to have free will and not sin, after all we are supposed to be made in his image and he is this way.

I don’t understand how we are supposed to only look at what is good and attribute it to God but any flaws we are supposed to attribute to what even? If I got a watch and it was really shitty and malfunctioning I would think it was a poor design by a poor designer but with the all powerful creator we aren’t supposed to make this assessment.

Huh, "In comes this talking snake..." Wait. How did this serpent (we assume a snake like creature) even get into the Garden of Eden? When Adam and Eve did fall, they were banned from the Garden with cherubim and the flaming sword to blocked the way back. Therefore, the Garden of Eden could be considered holy. If so, then how did Satan get in or, why did God permit Satan access to the Garden and the Tree of Life?

I use to ask this question as a 11 year old kid. Where does evil come from?...evil would have had to exist for satan to become evil... The only clise aswer I found was reading Augustine's confessions when he discussed the sin nature and the incident with the pear...how there was a sense of delight he got from throwing them at ppl... From rhis He explained that evil isnt the essense of obtaining. Its rather a lack of something intended. I will explain it this way...Evil is like having a wooden board, and in the middle of this board there's a rotten spot. The rot is what evil is...its a lack of what was suppose to be there...healthy wood....fir Lucifer to become evil or choise evil. Means that he would have had to have freewill. Or else love isnt love. Real love demands for the person to choose them or decline them by free choice. Or its not real. God couldve created one of 3 worlds...1. Continually evil with no good ( thats not love) 2. A would were were preprogrammed to accept and do ad commanded.( thats not love) 3. A word were good and evil is present and were given free choice...thats love in it highest form.

I thought that the fall was the fall for Satan as well.

THE HIGHLY OVERLOOKED QUESTION HERE IS HOW DID SATAN STILL HAVE PASSAGE INTO HEAVEN AFTER HE REBELLED AGAINST GOD. MICHEAL FOUGHT WITH THE DRAGON. IT WAS ONLY UNTIL GOD WAS MEETING WITH HIS ANGELS DESCRIBED IN (JOB) THAT SATAN SHOWED UP ALONG WITH THEM. THERE IS ONLY ONE ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION. CAN ANYBODY ANSWER IT. TECHNICALLY IT IS A VERY SIMPLE QUESTION TO ANSWER.

In Genesis God and Satan seem to be the same person. If they aren't then God delivered Satan to his new creation just to tempt them. Could you believe that God was ignorant to Satans presence in the garden?

How can a being have free will if a creator designed them. That implies that our nature is predetermined or planned. Also, how can a being have free will if God knows the outcome? That implies that there is destiny and destiny negates free will. The concept of free will is contradicted by the nature of God. So logically, either we have free will and God doesn't know everything and the outcome isn't in his predetermined plan. Or it is and we don't have free will. You can't have both.

GOD created all things..including evil? Sin?..now free choice is a different matter..

Sin or no Sin! If its Not Spirit it Will Eventually Die! Why God Only Knows Why He Created Humans To Die! He Knew They Would Choose Sin , Death> But Created Them Anyway>. Why

The people who sin is a free will like Adam and Eve did. God let us do what we want but He has laws like any country has. God's laws are given to all humans not only to Adam and Eve. Since we are transgressors Moses gave us 10 commandments but in fact there are a lot more which are sins example zoophilia and necrophilia etc. We as humans have the perception clear to know what's right and wrong. Whomever continues sinning won't be able to go to the afterlife.

Here is the real answer. Ready ... It's fiction.

Short answer- it didn’t happen

So if we go to Heaven and we have to have Free Will to Love how will we not have an option to sin again and repeat the cycle that Lucifer started? Iv herd it answered we will not have anything to temp us. Why didn't God make us a free will being with no temptation in the first place ? To blame it on Adam for the rest of humanity isn't fair or just.

I don't think he Angels have free will,they are created as perfect beings ,in heaven there is no free will,even when we go there ,we will not have freewill,God made him do it ,God himself creates evil Isaiah 45:7 I'm using the king James version

Perhaps the angels who rebelled reacted to God creating a HIGHER being (humans). Pride.

How can Satan have free will since it has been prophesied that he will be cast into hell? If he had free will, couldn't he repent?

If Lucifer had free will and chose to sin and become Satan, why would Adam and Eve need a mythical snake to tempt them?
They could reflect and decide for themselves just as Lucifer supposedly did.
The talking snake was just a representation of the process of Adam and Eve listening to their carnal egos.

The problem is there is no scriptural basis for satan falling, satan rebelling or satan described in any way like the christian doctrine. Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14 are entirely out of context and one of the only mentions of satan in Job indicates satan was exactly the opposite of what christians believe.

The explanation that begs the question how could a perfect, all knowing and all good God, fashion a "flawed" creature capable of being corrupted?. Equally important, corruption had to exist before the choice was made. Therefore, did the God create "corruption"?

You didn’t answer the question. How did lucite sin in heaven?

What I cannot understand is why any creation of God would choose to exercise free will at all in the presence of God.

So satan knew good and evil.

If Lucifer has free will and was able to sin then why are we to accept that we can’t do the same in Heaven after our physical death? Do we no longer have free will in Heaven?

Hi Sean the peace of GOD be with you
in all things edify
and edification needs a "material" which is found only in GOD'S perfection
your servant in Christ

christian

It doesn't matter if Satan had a choice, if he was created "pure" then why would he even choose to rebel against God, why would the concept of rebelling against God even exist unless God made it possible? And how could God not have known Satan would become evil and ruin everything if he is omniscient??

Nonsense.
Quit with the "devil made me do it" crap.
Origen, Clement of Alexandria and even Calvin called Genesis' Garden of Eden account "divine baby talk".
Mythical fiction for humans limited minds.

What's your opinion on presuppositional apologetics