"IT'S JUST ART, IT CAN'T HURT ANYONE." - Proshipping, Vent Art, & More || SPEEDPAINT + COMMENTARY

28/07/2023 EDIT: When making this video, I didn’t do thorough enough research on Stwawbewwy Milk’s situation. After learning that they’re monetizing their “vent art” depicting children s*xually and selling it to potential pr*dators and not just venting their experience for healing purposes, I no longer condone any of their actions, nor do I believe what they’re making (in my opinion) qualifies as vent art.

hot take but: if you don’t show it to ANYONE and it’s weird ass disturbing art then it’s fine ig.

I think it is okay to make problematic content

Why? Because if people can separate fiction from reality then it should be allowed, I believe that fiction is fiction, but we will touch on this a bit more later

"People are only discouraged to commit real life acts not because of morals but because of the punishment that yields from commiting those acts"

Yes, if we removed laws and the punishments that come with it but RETAIN our moral compass, then it should be easy to point out people who are immoral, are the bad ones, because, if you have a moral compass, you'd obviously recognize what is right or wrong

"It doesn't matter if it's fiction, it's problematic when minors/children are coming across these kind of stuff"

First off, if you cannot separate fiction from reality, I'd like to say you have moral ambiguity

Second, yes, I do not think minors/children should be exposed to these kind of stuff, so posts like proshipper content or lolicon should be kept in a small group privately, and should NOT allow minors

I believe that if members as a collective come to an agreement that no minors should be allowed to come close to these content, and that they agree commiting acts in real life are horrible decisions, then I think it's fine

Final thoughts

I think the most important thing here is that, fiction is fiction but children shall be protected from these form of content, separating fiction from reality is such a weak plank to stand on because there is a lot of people that cannot do that

But I think those people who are unable to separate fiction from reality are victims, they are people who has been taught in the wrong way

And to that, I say we do our best to protect minors, and not fight each other over it.

Feel free to go hog wild with your arguments

It's honestly a breath of fresh air to see people present helpful arguments

Personally i think vent art is okay
For many,like me,its a way to express my feelings,like a trans vent art i did around 6 month ago(i think)because i felt really dysphoric when i drew it

But if it is like strawberry milk,then she should keep it to herself

This topic makes me feel uncomfortable and what’s worse is that the MHA fandom is so broken I saw a ship of Eri and Deku I stay away cause if I give my opinion people will just shame me so I stay away

i agree with you 100%

i honestly don't know what to say but i have been called the f slur and told to kys once on AO3 for just leaving a thumbs up in the comments. they need to calm down.

It reminds of Yashahime, the anime that follows Inuyasha
The main character is the daughter of a super weird couple
The dad is Sesshomaru , he is a cold super powerful demon king and he his hundred of years old (but let's say 30 in human years)
The mom is Rin , she was found by Sesshomaru when she was 9 and she started traveling with him.

In Inuyasha Sesshomaru is a caretaker to Rin (he protect her , care about her , ressuscitate her twice). Since he is a lord he have a relation of power with Rin ,she call him lord and respect him as a superior

So ,knowing that they ended up together with kids a few years later in Yashahime is like super weird. Many people argue that "it's just an anime , it's not real". But honestly, it give a super bad message

I sometimes get this from some sexworkers, claiming the individual inspired by the sexwork is the problem while the sexwork is innocent, which only get's an exception to pedophilic arts which are seen as bad.
Like that's such hypocrisy. Force Fem art isn't bad, it's the chaser it inspired who we should be focusing on!
Wait, pedo art? Nah, ban it.
Like, if we know pedo art's bad, why not others?
You can keep porn alive on the Internet amidst it's discrimination but we shouldn't be falsely equivelating kink art with paraphilic art.

How do people who say “art can’t harm anyone” feel good about themselves?! The main (I think) way the N@z1s brainwashed children was by showing them their ideal N@z1 human against an exaggerated Jew through ART. Through ART in BOOKS.

If i had a dollar for each time somone sexualised a minor, i'd have like a trillion poodles or something

in my opinion, as someone else said, i believe that abusive and pedophilic relationships should be portrayed in media - the only issue with it is when it’s not portrayed negatively.

about what someone said around “if anyone likes a minor they’re a predator”, is absolutely incorrect. this implies that, should a 15 year old have a crush on another 15 year old, they are in fact, a predator. which ISN’T TRUE, because they are the SAME AGE. however, should anyone who is not a minor have a crush on a 15 year old, that is when they are in the wrong, and a predator.

i honestly dont like shiping but im not gonna do anything abt the creator unless if its just bad to the point it needs to be flaged or reported

Generally, I believe that if a ship is problematic, it should be shown in a clearly problematic light. As long as this is clear (in most cases) I believe the art is fine and can even help make social commentary on issues.

Whenever i see antis I just think to myself SHATAFAKAPAUNASTY

just to add some increased complexity to the conversation, i feel like a lot of people forget to remember that minors are also occasionally the ones creating problematic art of minors. for example, if a 16 year old has a crush on their teacher irl, they might fantasize about dating them or creating some manner of art exploring that fantasy in a safe way, or look for ships that mimic that dynamic, despite never actually wanting to participate in such irl. teacher/student is a pretty common fantasy, and problematic content isn’t ONLY made by adults. minors themselves are creating this stuff too, they aren’t twiddling their thumbs and waiting respectfully until 18 to suddenly go looking for or participating in weird ships. almost every denizen of the internet has a story of ‘yea i lied about being over 18 to get into this website when i was 15’ or ‘lol yea i remember shipping (problematic ship) as a kid’. it feels weird that everyone seems to skip over minors exploring bad dynamics in a safe manner for fun, almost taking away any agency they do have, for the sake of going ‘this is entirely an adult problem and minors are just being tossed around without a say’.

Imho, artists should add disclaimers and warnings on every pro-ship post, that it’s rooted in fiction and not representative of any real life situations.
If anyone tries to replicate this irl, they are a predator and should be reported to the police.”
That’s what I’ll do anyways.

I know a lot of people will disagree with me here but I actually do not think vent art is a bad thing, ever, under any circumstance. Yes, it is triggering. Yes, it can be problematic but that is in part some of the point in making art that deals with a personal subject to the artist and why it's value is important to those who view it. I've always drawn problematic art, artwork depicting sexual abuse, violence and self harm. Ever since I was a child. This was catharsis for me and became habitual and always has been and continues to be a positive outlet for the distortions extreme abuse can cause a person that not even dozens of thousands of dollars of psychiatric treatment could sustainably compete with. Beyond just my own side of things, I've received boat loads of messages from people who found catharsis in my work in my hay day of posting regularly on DeviantArt, for how I've depicted the abstract of abuse and violence. To sanitize the art community by shoving bummer materia to the deep margins of the art world is to do a great disservice to the many people who simply enjoy art for different reasons than the average person. You may find it too dark and depressing and even triggering but if it's one thing I've learned over my life, it's that you are in part responsible for filtering out what's harmful. It's not just on us, because we aren't meant for you and expecting us to jump through the hoops to make you feel more comfortable sets a precedent for the art world that I just don't think makes sense.

To close on a saying: good art is safe, great art is controversial.

I will say this- in the My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic fandom, many anti folk really despise the idea of an Age gap ship bigger than 1-5 years of a gap. Even with the last episode of the series where everyone have grown up and have become adults, quite a few people in the fandom seem to ignore it. Harrassing people for "purposely aging a character up" just for a ship. Which honestly isn't true 95% of the time. The other portion being those who are doing it just to be harmful.

Everything relating to such things is just... ugh... It's rather exhausting when it's all that you see. All the negativity from so much drama.

My opinion: I personally think vent art should be labelled and have a trigger warning if it contains, sa themes/hints, csa themes/hints, sh scars, abuse themes/hints, dr^g abuse themes/hints or s^icide themes/hints. If it contains graphic depictions of sa or csa, it should not be posted online. Vent art should be ladled clearly as vent art, just in case if someone doesn't feel like looking at or interacting with it. This comes from someone who posts vent art, and consumes vent art material for comfort and to comfort others.

I personally do not want to interact with proshippers or antishippers, both are far too extreme for my comfortability.


I also don't want to interact with any loli/shota art, yes, it is 'better' than the real thing, but it is still bad and is still catering towards the wrong type of people.


Feel free to politely debate me on this

I love this Video, really well done and incredibly tactful in how you talked about it

As someone who has struggled with sh for years, I have made vent art. I will never post that vent art on social media? The reason? I don’t want anyone to stumble onto a picture on tumblr while looking art and seeing something they don’t want to see. They did not consent to seeing depictions of sh. This has happened to me and has caused me to relapse, I would never want to inflict that on anyone else. Touchy subjects can be posted in the right spaces though. Maybe put them behind a paywall or find a way to post it where you can’t see the actual art just through scrolling.

Some people ship Cream Unicorn Cookie and Apple Cookie, WHAT THE FU—

Honestly, I don’t think my opinion on whether a piece of art or writing should exist matters, because in the end cencorship doesn’t work . People will always make explicit content, and telling them that it will be taken down just encourages them to not mark it as such.
I strive to keep in mind the difference between “what will make me feel accomplished” and “what will actually reduce the most harm.” And what reduces the most harm, in reality, is warning viewers ahead of time, marking problematic content as such, and making it so people can’t stumble upon such thing without seeking them out.

I think vent art is ok depending on what's depicted & how. Like I'm personally fine with gore & such but if it's SA or somn I don't think you should be posting that.

How's this for an indisputable fact:

Lolicon is no less illegal than actual CP in just about every jurisdiction in the world. And even if it's not (and that's a BIG if, because any retard knows they're both the same goddamn thing), everyone will still treat you like all those predators Chris Hansen would ask to have a seat, because you *ARE*. Absolutely no fucking exceptions. So unless you wish to permanently forfeit your privileges as a human being and live the remainder of your life as a complete social outcast due to EVERYONE hating you, think before you fucking act.

Lolicons have absolutely NO fucking place on this planet and they almost make me wish there were exceptions to laws against murder.

My opinions:
VENT ART is a good thing for a person and a community as it creates connections and a safe place to bring these heavy topics up. This art is meant to be shown to a group of people not everyone. Things like warnings can help make sure people can scroll or pass the art. An issue with this type of art is just people fetishizing toxic and unhealthy relationships and topics.

Liking anything with children/minors in a sexual manor in my honest opinion is wrong. It overall hurts children and makes the art community unsafe for them.

With that said, I have met proshippers as some are people who are actually unwell mentaly AND KNOW that in doing this type of art is bad. They told me how they are venting these intrusive thoughts in hopes that they can get out of it. THIS IS NOT ALL PROSHIPPERS. This is also not an excuse but an explanation for why they do it. Shipping IRL people can damage and hurt people as it can makes their relationship strained. (intrusive thoughts are different from impulsive)


PS. Just because they are doing stuff they shouldnt or things you PERSONALY dont agree with doesnt mean you can just tell people to kys. Its overall stupid and doesnt make you the better person, it can make you a bully and can/will make them continue.

My honest opinion: as a fan of works that deal with sensitive and controversial themes, I don't think that the problem is fiction, but the people behind it and those who receive it. You can like toxic and criminal characters, as long as you can take a critical view of them and separate fiction from real life. There are people who are going to have their limits of what they can tolerate in the fictional universe, and that's totally fine too. What is really wrong is to dehumanize others for things that do not even affect their daily lives and drag children into this type of thing, since there is no way for them to discern these issues so well. For me, people should stop taking issues like this so hard and worry more about what happens in the real world.

um this whole topic can be summed up with one answer. it is not the artists job to control how their art is being viewed and it is up to the viewer of that art to leave if they don't like it or if it makes them uncomfortable. my art regardless of it being vent art or inappropriate to some is my art and mine to make and post as i see fit. and just like you Karens have to ability to scroll away from a video you don't like or to click off of the art you see or even select un-follow/un-subscribe at your leisure however KAREN YOU DO NOT GET TO TELL ME WHAT TO MAKE OR POST JUST BECAUSE YOU FIND IT DISTASTEFUL OR UNMORAL NOT TO MENTION JUST BECAUSE YOU THINK IT'S ROMANTICIZING A PROBLEM WE'RE COPING WITH, I THINK YOU'RE PROJECTING KAREN.

I personally think shipping is okay. Just not when it’s toxic, or blatant p£d0ph!1!@.
I also think vent art is okay, as long as you addd the appropriate trigger warnings, or just don’t post it at all.

Honestly I see more minors drawing this stuff than actual adults at least when I was in school. And the few adults I see draw like that it is portrayed as a horrific event or act in the art.

As a active comic maker, I’m fucking scared of having my youngest character who is one of the main characters (my PFP) being sexualized. Why? Because that’s supposed to be me. All of my characters are supposed to be an outlet for me, especially them. Their name is Spindle. They are 13 (like me) and just want to live. I don’t want them to be shipped. At all.

my opinion is i don’t care about “abuse ships” i do however care about pedophilic ships or sexual art of children as i was groomed using media like that it does happen
but like idk if the two fictional consenting adults wanna kill each other or whatever then i don’t care i’ll avoid it and i’m not gonna look at it but like it doesn’t mean i don’t want it to exist like go off i guess
i ain’t an anti despite people saying i am
i just don’t wanna see people post and defend sexualizing minors that’s so like just weird especially since it can be used like in my case as grooming material

as adults online if we see kids in sexual spaces we need to cast them out as well do not let them in to see that stuff

i hate this fight ill just ignore everyone who are anti/proship only follow artist by art

What I hate most is how some directly link stuff that you like/draw/write to your morality. Like, just because someone draws some extreme gore or murder doesn’t mean that the artists is gonna go on a spree 😰 I guess I’d be a proshipper cause I just don’t care what you ship. Maybe it’s because I was a young weeb who survived the great Naruto ship wars 😅

(I also hate that as a short girl, I’ve seen some go to the extreme conclusion that anyone who would date a short person is a pedo, or that the age difference between my bf and I is pedophilic even if we met as adults 😅)

People that think lolicon doesnt affect real life people should just step into any anime con, honestly. As a regular vendor I see all kinds of people because I'm forced to sit there for minimum 10 hours at a time. Ive seen plenty of actual children attending and greasy weebs making DISGUSTING comments about them in plain sight...like 2 m away from my booth.

As someone who used to identify as an anti, at least a notable amount anti circles tend to punish people for having more nuanced opinions on topics that aren't super black and white (i.e. age gaps with adults, pairings that would technically be toxic irl (certain enemies to lovers and relationships that aren't built on a good foundation but become healthy in canon are big ones), ships that if you squint your eyes and imagine a plausible unhealthy situation with them even if it isn't the canon situation, etc.). I think this fear of abandonment and pushback fuels a lot of the harassment.
For example, the group I was in was focused on JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, and the leaders of the server were basically able to call the shots of what ships were and were not acceptable, and if you didn't start hating them to the point of harassing people you were just as bad. Like a ship between a character who was 20 and a character who was 29 was deemed problematic despite the fact both characters are adults and in the mafia (Bruno and Risotto if anyone is curious). As well as a ship between two teenagers because one character had an unhealthy obsession, and then got character, development because the toxic behaviors were present when they first met, despite being canon after both characters grew as people (Koichi and Yukako). In addition, some medias were viewed as unredeemable as well despite being similar to, or even not as bad as, JoJo in terms of "problematic" content. Examples being Danganronpa, Friday Night Funkin, and Identity V.
While I still agree that positive portrayals of pedophilia and incest are wrong, I've had to spend quite a bit of time unlearning the mindset that everything is either "good" or "bad" without any sort of gray areas, encouraging constant self surveillance and guilt if you don't think that something deemed as "bad" is completely unredeemable.
Plus I've seen a good amount of predators call themselves antis.
Thankfully that group imploded since we found out that the owner at the time was a raging panphobe, so me and the friends I kept in contact with were able to heal from the toxic mentalities that were encouraged in that group. While I appreciate the attempts to protect minors on the internet, many antis don't really have that as their main goal and are either attempting to conform to a group setting or justifying their harassment with a moral superiority. I personally don't like proship content, however I have found that just ignoring it is much better for the mental health.
ty to anyone who decided to read this rambley mess lol

Lolicon is the reason WHY We need to bring back Burning books in public

Problematic media can exist as long as it is depicted as problematic and wrong and not glorified in any way.

When you see the retitling of a video in real time

I thought pro shipping was professional shipping. As in, a matchmaker who gets paid to help people to find love.

proshipping in my opinion is odd, because while the pedo/incest/non-con stuff is fucking deplorable, literally disgusting, the ones where its just characters one or two years off of 18 & looks like an adult clearly... its not that big of a deal lol
i'd much rather enjoy someones art and artstyle then give a fuck about their ships involving people that are close enough to the legal age.
another thing to consider is the age of consent in certain countries. in mine, its 16, so that might influence some ships based on their location.

again, pedo/incest/non-con content makes me ill, like actually, but there are some "proships" that are blown way out of proportion. im definitely more to the anti side of the situation but im not gonna go out of my way to harrass people. ill just enjoy the art and... move on.

I remember that as a 15 or 16 yo I drew a character of mine in a "shame your character" meme where he was crying and clearly distraught about something...A grown ass adult took issue with it and decided to berate me and call me an abuser (mind you, I was going through very real abuse until the age of 18/19) and disgusting and how I have 'forced' them to see it...They weren't following me. I had several of my older friends (18+ friends, some of these I still talk to to this day and consider really close friends of mine with a really healthy relationship) literally step in to tell them they were tripping absolute balls.

Finding the comments again about a year or 2 ago still bogled my brain as a now 23 yo

So many adults will be so quick to title everything that displays any form of sadness or trauma as all bad, regardless of who is making it, and in a lot of cases they are blowing things so out of proportion that one might forget a block button exists

honestly proshippers need to chill tf out and stop shipping inc/st and p/do stuff, because despite what they say, fiction does affect reality. antis need to chill out because they really can go TOO nuts and attack people who dont even ship anything crazy.

Did you know that Kingdom Hearts fans ship Sora and Kairi with each other?

(I watched it a few times and returned with opinions no one asked about lol)

About lolicon: I just saw so so many cases when REAL short and cute adult women were called pedophile supporters bc they had shown their sexuality. So while I agree with you, let's still put a bold and strict border between fiction and reality not to hurt real fucking women.
And, for me personally, small anime adult characters (with adult look, traits, behaviour, etc.) and small anime kids is a big difference (I put 50000 y.o. gods with 5y.o. personalities in the "kids" basket). Even though the first ones are so rare that I myself can't remember any right now.

About viewer responsibility: after ~13 y.o. one can recognize 18+ signs, and nsfw and proship spaces are COVERED in it. And accounts with such labels are often even hidden from minors. So when one claims to be minor and is found in explicitly hidden from minor space, it's only their responsibility. If they want to see adult content, then they should act like adults which means not whining and crying about seeing it first. However, if art is 18+ and not labelled, it should be reported for sure.

(And, yes, authors aren't responsible for their viewers, especially when they explicitly stated their views and intentions)

I don't think it's any less weird that people even fantasize about problematic content. Like ,,why are you drooling over minor characters and why does 4buse make you go ,,hmm this is okay"