God, Marxism, and the Fall of the West | Ayaan Hirsi Ali | EP 457

Thank you so much for very interesting discussion. you are amazing people. I was born in Middle East I know exactly what Ayaan is talking about , God bless and protect you. I’ll take this opportunity to Congratulate Ayaan for her conversion hope and pray that she will open many eyes and brings them to Christ the World be safe place.

Two things: ask yourself WHY we live in a world with a government run education system where they categorically fail to teach students essential knowledge & WHY parents have allowed the government to usurp our primary responsibility to educate our children. IF you cant homeschool or find a classical co-op, ADD on at home - courses on logic & rhetoric, classics, & the great books. Memoria Press has online videos and cheap workbooks. It's the parent's responsibility to educate their child & to fill in the gaps where the traditional system fails.

If you think we're going to get out of this without fighting dirty then we have no chance whatsoever

The issue I have with the term cultural Christian is the assertion that certain types of behaviours are Christian only because they are suggested in the Bible. The elevation of the Bible to untouchable levels is an issue. The people who wrote the Bible did not invent fundamental moral behaviour. Like all works of humanity, it is built upon what came before. There may be aspects of the Bible that really are true but we don't know. We cannot assert that they are and we should not call a moral behaviour Christian.

Just as we cannot say humans invented the colour red. We only invented the symbol which we use to describe to each other the colour red.

This is why I will never call myself a Christian. I love some aspects of the Bible and disagree with others and I do not think the Bible has ownership of fundamental behaviour of the Universe. This is just massively arrogant.

We need a more accurate symbol to represent people trying to behave in a moral way. Which absolutely means including more than some of the Bible.

Finally I hear that there are people in the West that understand a little bit about subversion. A little late and incomplete.
When you wake up late, no matter how smart you are, you will not be able to grasp the entire situation. Beats me if you came to the realization that you are manipulated , why not try to talk to those that went through the communist ordeal in Eastern Europe and all of its avatars.

Why is Peterson's characterization of Marx's theory always so deceptive!? The opressed for Marx is the slave from Hegel's parabole, who is not allowed self-determination/conscience. He uses the parabole to illustrate the capitalist society of his time worked and how it developed its own contradictions. The communist regimes did the same thing, often more brutaly, than the capitalist states. Under the pretense that certain marxist views and programms were not only objectively true but also immediately applicable, they also repressed self-determination of individuals and peoples.

Wonderful

Why are people like this not in charge of our world, why are they not the ones looking after our society, instead we are led by the clowns, most of whom we have never heard of before they take over our country, our safety

Aayan: "We did not do to Communism what we did to Nazism". referring to intense, prolonged De-Nazification after ww2.

But, likewise, the older, equally viscious, supremacist, tribalistic foe: Islamist Fundamentalism--perhaps even more sinister due to it's nihilism ("we love death")--This too had no "De-Islamic-Fundamentalization" take place when the Ottoman Empire collapsed.

Probably because the Islamic Fundamentalist threat lay dormant and unseen to the Western world at the end of ww1?

Invisible in the Western world, supremacist, Islamic Fundamentalism flew under the radar upon the defeat of the Ottoman Caliphate, and was never energetically extirpated the way Nazism was. We are suffering the dire consequences of that, globally today.

I don't think the answer to radical leftists and radical Islam is radical Christianity. Evangelicals and Catholics also tend towards intolerance. The actual roots of western culture are further back in the classical world of Greece and then into Ancient Egypt. I think the Christian story is nested into a larger classical spirituality. The Divine is real, but no group owns that. As soon as a group thinks that they do, then there you have trouble.

That was an incredible discussion

Awesome insights and hope for the success of the Abrahamic Accord

This is no god and there is no hell. Jordan (who I greatly admire) can't even tell anyone what he actually believes about it.

There are so many victims of left abuse, sex abuse, etc, that those need to be helped to recover from trauma and poverty. Help them to learn, succeed and recover wholeness of spirit. Those young and old victimized by leftist marxist medieval tyrannical wealthy emotionally immature group ww, need a way to live and succeed. There are so many now that need this new story new opportunities. Especially farmers, ranchers, small businesses, families need new ways to succeed. Big hug american dream ww...

I want countries to be different culturally. I want new places, new food, history, art, money, friends. No ww walmart beige existence. No more sludge please. Be different. Give us opportunies not cancelling swamp of nothing of existence.

Preface of book, Plant Intelligence by Stephen Harrod Buhner, describes Elizabeth Kubler Ross' experience at prison camp after WW2 meeting surviving jewish girl. Young girl says there is a nazi insude of all of us. Each of us has to struggle to choose to overcome this inside. She worked inside german hospital helping young children of germans hurt in war. She lost her whole family yet was creating love amongst her former enemies. That is just preface of the book. Plant Intelligence is an amazing book to experience. The wholeness of all the natural world and all of us humans. I hope this love inside us grows.

There is no Cultural Christian, far from it, Rather the Truth, and a Fearful one is those whos career was to demolish Christianity, is now at the dawnin of a new era, tasting the fruit of their labor,, as with the collapse, of Berlin wall, a new Society, one that ushers in ISLAM.
The difference is as contrast as dark and light. Mr Dawkins,, and many like him,, are now trying now to bridge a walls, they spend a lifetime reducing it to a rubble, to realize they were the beneficiary of such System.

Ayann you are in my prayers my sister in the Lord Jesuah.

Sam Shamoun rips islam to threads he is the most learned koran and bible scholar . Jay Smith is in that rare place too. They know the koranbetter tha many muslims. They have taken over the very symbol of free speech in Speakers Corner and that act is extreme,y symbolic to THEM. UK wake up,your house is on fire. We can talk about stuff after the fire is extinguished get out of the way.

@Jordan B Peterson - Regarding the discussion on reforming Islam near the end of this conversation, this is not merely an issue caused by propaganda 'from the last 70 years'. I understand that many Muslims are taught to read the Arabic, but don't understand it and rely on teachers to tell them what it means, so you will not likely hear the truth here in the west. When the Qu'ran itself says that it is the "eternal word of Allah", and you are discussing changes, you will always have opposition. What is needed is exposition of its origins, demonstration that its writings have been changed and distorted in order to allow for change, and that can only be done through irrefutable proof. Dr. Jay Smith of "Pfander Films" and "Al Fadi" of "CIRA International" have been doing research into this matter. If drawn out to its conclusion, Islam should dissipate into Christianity with the discovery that the "Muhammad" of the Qu'ran never actually existed, and that much of the Qu'ran was stolen from Christian lectionaries and Jewish rabbinical writings and then altered as an anti-Christian and anti-Jew movement during the 7th century (Demonstrated by the inscription of Muhammad (a title meaning "the praised one" - Not a name) on coins that depict a man holding a Christian Cross).

Hello Jordan! Good to hear you on this.

Growing up in the 70 and 80'ies we discussed alot and often disagreed but always reminds friends. The end of freedom of speech in media came in the 90'ies in Norway. RIP Democracy

Greed, Envy & Covetousness. Solving these attitudes will encompass “Cain & Able” and also “Oppressed & Oppressor”.

Attitudes of hearts conflicted by their battle with Deity are the root of all evil.

Joy is the prize. Winning is putting to death the beast that craves to supplant God with Self.

Easier said than done. Yet Love never fails. God is Love.

Ambition, Competition and Ownership are not synonymous with Greed, Envy & Covetousness. Apply Love to each attitude and the outcome = Joy.

“Seek first God’s kingdom and God’s righteousness and ALL THESE THINGS will be added to you.” Matthew 6:33

In Srilanka , I rather like to have a democratic God.😂😂😂

We might be at a point at which it's not possible to restore civil discussion and disagreement. When two viewpoints are sufficiently different from one another that they are opposite, and a middle ground means fundamentally changing one or the other, then it's not likely to reconcile them.

Amazing conversation of two geniuses! God will save us!!!

Ayaan Hirsi Ali's life experience background makes her analysis of what she sees in front of her become a strong and trustworthy reason.
I agree with her. She has a complete vision.

Satan made Marxism, which then birthed many demons (Woke, Socialism, Communism, Maoism, etc). WHEN U REALISE THIS U begin to BECOME FREE.

Her arguments are so shallow and trivial esp when she says. Islamists tried to destroy our culture by terrorism when they failed because of our technological advancements they switched to dawa. You don't expect some one who is very literate making such shallow statements. She just is saying what you want to hear. unfortunately.
Dawa is an age old tradition in islam and other religion which means, to preach. I have been approached by many priests to present Christianity (dawa).

This was great but...what is Mr. Peterson wearing? 🤔

And all forewarned by the Virgin Mary at Fatima in 1917.

marxism: beginner's pattern recognition for brainlets

Hey that's fun. A shout out to Saskatoon 🙌

🤘

The corruption which is evident in all levels of our public education system K thru our colleges and universities pushing Anti-American ideologies and pro-Marxism, is so deeply impeded that it will take generations to undo the damages done mentally to our nation's youth. If parents and grandparents would become involved in the undoing of this I doctrination this process could be excellerated but that would take Courage and Conviction to do this without fear of being canceled and attacked for standing up against those who wish to intimidate and silence them.

Gods word can provide us guidance, When the unclean spirit has gone out of a person, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, but finds none. 44 Then it says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when it comes, it finds the house empty, swept, and put in order. 45 Then it goes and brings with it seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they enter and dwell there, and the last state of that person is worse than the first. So also will it be with this evil generation.”

we're witnessing the collapse of an empire. You folk having these conversations are squillionaires - the system has served you. But it doesn't serve the majority and, like rome, you reach a boiling point and things collapse. It isn't "marxism" to blame. It's everyone's responsibility to maintain the society, and if you are willing to turn a blind eye to the corruption at the level of the elites then you can't engage in the conversation and you're gonna watch your society crumble. Religion, politics, market etc etc aside - you have to do a health check of the system, determine whether reform is possible, and then brace yourself.

Why wasn’t there a retrospection on communism like there was for NZ? Who were the Bolsheviks? The same people that pay Mr Petersons salary.

This lady look like ASAP Rocky

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Ask them for the truth

Jordan ,let your guest respond more please .

The military industrial complex sponsors prolonging a Marxist Communist enemy for furthering their own corrupt gains anx hence misusing our open society from within.

Vlad Savchuk interview “a muslims encounter “ with Kamal Saleem. Plus Nabeel Qureshi talks

all your comments have been black listed. just saying... or just mine

I appreciate Dr Jordan for his courage in dressing uniquely and colorfully - as almost no men will don (in this age).

Thank you Dr Peterson for sharing this interview with Ayaan and having this conversation. She is brilliant.🙏

Gk Chesterson wròte that it is not that Cristianity was tried and failed. It is that it was never tried.

Samo Burja has great arguments for why universities are now zombies, as well as on other mechanisms for our institutional corrosion. Yes we are being subverted from the outside, but our internal incentive structures, post-industrial revolution, are contributing most. The subversion only amplifies and adds new inflection points to the rot that's already occurring on its own. He would be a great guest as well, his interview on Liv Boeree's Win-Win is very insightful! We need radical policy reform to restore ourselves to a thriving society.