What Ryan F9 Did Not Tell You About Motorcycle RPM

Blow out the carbon or let it accumulate?

Good explanation. Thanks for sharing!!

The part missing from both videos - where the engine is operating most efficiently. That is usually in the general area of the torque peak. Look at where the torque peak is, that is where the engine will most easily pull the hardest. If a rider looks for a dyno chart of the motorcycle they have they may find Cycle World or Motorcyclist have done a run. The torque curve shows how the engine will pull.

For instance the Yamaha CP700 engine has around 85% of max torque from around 4000 rpm up to around 8000 rpm. That is the zone where it will pull with the least amount of effort. Puttering around town one can run the low revs, but for best pulling power the engine works with least effort from 4000 rpm up. Staying in the range from 4000-5000 gives best most efficient performance. I can pretty much vouch for that having an XSR700. You may say, "well that's your opinion". So let's have less "opinionated" example...


When selling Hondas we had customers complaining about the pulling power and gas mileage of the GL1100 and 1200. Most dealers had those complaints. Seems they were getting mpg in the low to mid forties. We found one rider was trying to pull fourth gear at around 2700 rpm. The engine actually would buck a bit. We were amazed. Not that the engine bucked, but that the rider was that clueless. So Honda put in their input.

Honda said run the engine between 3500-4500 rpm for best gas mileage and efficient performance. Even if it means downshifting. Just happened to have an 1100 and my friend a 1200, going on a long ride from east central Ohio to Niagra falls. Riding two up and loaded we kept the bikes in that zone when on open roads, in the middle of town loafing along doesn't come into play. We saw a shade above 50 mpg. Seems the best power was from around 3500 up to 5500 rpm.

Find out what the power delivery is like then run in the low to middle torque range for best efficiency when on the road.

I want to ask about the carbon on the piston, does the carbon-addictive they offer when I change the oil at a garage really help cleaning the engin??

Ryan is a physicist. What's your education?
I always trust science, hopefully so do everyone else.

If you want to use low revs, do it when it is not damaging. Use low revs on flat roads, downhills, low drag.

Use higher revs, when your engine is warm, accelerating, uphills, towing, two-up etc. Basically any time there is a drag.

Basically, only time higher revs can be damaging, is doing it on cold engine.

If you want a piece of mind do not buy a vehicle with:
Automatic transmission (which use way too low revs to reduce consumption and emissions)

Turbo/supercharger (almost guaranteed to break after 100000 miles)

Four wheel drive (double the possible troubles)

So where is the sweet spot? Assuming the "red line" is the limit, what percent or RPM (i.e. shift at 50%, 60%, 70%) do you suggest we shift?

I ride a 600 Super Sport Bike. The choice is simple. Rev the piss out of it every single time I get on it. Period. If it blows up, well they make new engines every day.

The information about carbon is out of date, not much problem with carbon with modern cleaner fuels and better oils.... today's fuels are highly refined Dinosaur Juice... If you are watching MPG high revs are bad news. Modern engines will last a long time even with high revs because they are designed for them, and modern oils are chalk and cheese compared to old oils.

I have a 2021 BMW R1250GSA and typically ride 200 miles + at a time. When on highway I use cruise control and the bike stays around 3,700RPM - should I be giving it a little more beans ???

When your job is to churn out content, and your entire brand is unconventional wisdom and hot takes, you're bound to say some foolish things. Still love F9, though

Knew a guy years ago, who bought himself a brand new whitefish trawler and treated it like a baby. Would never open up the engine to higher revs and give it a blast. The damn thing was ruined in no time with carbon build up. Sure it was a diesel engine but the same thing applies.

Sorry, but higher rpms lower the pressure in the cylinders.

It's simple. Sit around,you get fat. Stay busy and keep fat away. See?

Stop driving your motorcycle like it's a car. It was designed for higher RPMs than an automotive engine. You bought your bike to have fun, don't drive it like a grandma. Have fun on it. If it needs to be rebuilt at 50,000 mi rebuild it and maybe learn something. Remember you bought a bike to have fun. Don't get on your bike and look 2 years in the future. Thinking you might have to rebuild the bike. Get on it and have fun.

Stop over-analyzing this. For 90% of riders none of this matters because they are never going to put enough miles on to wear out an engine anyway. Most motorcycles will have multiple owners with different riding habits and will still die from neglect or abandonment. For you, the 10%, just ride your motorcycle however you want to ride it. If you are the guy just putzing around town at less than 3k rpm, you will never care if your total maximum power output is going down. If you are the guy ripping it up on track days every weekend, you will never complain that your piston rings are shot at 20k miles.

Not using your blinker, must be trying to extend the life of the bulb from all that carbon

Agree !! Best regards from Germany.

I have a 2022 Kawasaki Versus 1000 (1043cc inline 4). The owner’s manual gives recommended shift points based on vehicle speed. It states to shift into 6th (high) gear at 40 mph. At that speed the engine is barely above idle. So why does it say to shift at such a low rpm if lugging the engine is bad for it?

The last time that I encountered a problem with carbonisation in and engine was in the mid 90's on a 76 Mazda. Just operate engines the way that they were intended to be operated. High RPM, low RPM... blah blah blah. You can feel it in your blood. And if you can't feel it in your blood, check the manufacturer's handbook. It will be in there, if it is something to consider. THEIR ENGINEERS HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS AND MANUFACTURERS HATE BAD PRESS!
Modern engine designs, fuels and lubricants have gone a heck of a long way from the days when carbonisation was a real issue. I've got an old vice in my shed that I inherited from my father, that came accessorised with a tool to secure cylinder heads for the purpose of decarbonising them. That vice was founded in the 1940's. It's 2023!
Use the engine like you should. Treat it well, give it a bit of a blast once in a while to "stretch the rods", get the oil flowing at maximum pressure in order to remove any gunk from the galleries, knock a bit of poop off the pistons, valves and head and it will be fine. No need to overthink this one, folks.

I don't think it matters to either explanation. It is the same thing with cars. It is the imagination of riders or drivers to put to this perspective of RPM, at any given rpm, the engine is fine. The only thing to pay attention the quality of gasoline/petrol. If you keep changing the brand, it will affect the quality of gasoline. This is a huge deal because the final push for power is the burning in chambers. Poor quality gas can lead to more gunk inside the piston , and valve areas. For those who think gasoline is the gasoline, or all the same will end up with problem. Not the Rpm. RpM to help push the high pressure of burned gas out of chambers. It help a little bit to flush but the build ups are not from the low rpm, the quality of gasoline is. It is normal to get small build ups because it is a kitchen so to speak. Where can you see a kitchen is always sparkle? Never. If you put a lazy bad chefs in the kitchen, your sparkle kitchen will soon be yucky. So is the gasoline quality. Hope this helps.

Years ago I got a hand me down Camry from my wife's grandpa. It audibly pinged and was getting less than 20 mpg. After about a month of this, I ran the tank almost empty then filled it with premium. For that tank of gas I basically used the accelerator like an on/off switch as safely as I could. The next tank was regular octane and I got 26 with no pinging.
Long story short, cars need the carbon burnt off from time to time, too. Google "direct injection" and then "catch can" or "sea foam" for more information on modern engines suffering from this issue.

Gotta love people generating views from other people's content 🤣

Thanks Marine!

My Ducati 1000 at lower engine heat levels and rpm does most definitely cause an issue. It's fuel injected so no idle jet to clog. It will start dying at stop lights. My Boulevard C90 has less issues but was built for much lower rpm. I grew up racing 2 stroke dirt bikes and you have to keep them spun up. 7-10k

Ahhh like all things in life. Moderation is key with all things.

I'm often torn between fuel economy and comfort on my xsr900 vs having the power to pull away fast if need be.
Cruising around at 1500 rpm is great for fuel economy and comfort, but makes for a weak pull, and probably less to carbon build up.
The machine is happiest at 3200 rpm for day to day timing about, I think.

I think the main aspect of the story is 'in general' and 'common sense'. Cold start reving to redline, thats not common sense. Chucking low rpm on a low CC under too heavy load, is more a case 'in general' and those are often the exception that confirms the rule. Then i read this comment 'i rev higher and my fuel economy down the drain'.. well, there is your 'common sense'. Nonstop going redline? Offcourse its bad. Going sub 3k rpm nonstop? Same story other way around.

I went on a 400KM ride last Saturday and we were going FAST. Because of this I noticed after my bike sounded alittle different and felt alittle more peppy. Normally I drive around the city, so the occasional high RPM for long lengths of time can be healthy but I wouldn't drive around in 1st gear all the time

Easiest answer is that lugging it to the point of feeling the strain is not a good place to be.

Balance is the key. Lots of bikes can do the highway speed limits in first or second gear. That's not ideal for cruising. Many bikes have cruise control for highway drones which I use often. My FJR cruises at 70 mph just under 4000 rpm. That feature wouldn't be included if it harmed your bike. Ryan was a bit vague about what rpm is good. Certainly, gearing down to pass is good for the bike without causing issues. Seems i do a fair bit of that.

Like you said it all depends on each individual engine design and type. You have to find the sweet spot for each engine. A short stroke inline 700C will rev higher and have a much higher sweet spot than a single cylinder long stroke 650. My KLR 650 begins to vibrate and burn oil and fuel above 5,000 RPMs while my Nighthawk 700sc has a huge boost in the powerband at 8-10,000 RPMs.

All engines have a sweet spot. Some small motorcycle engines need to rev to the sky. Some of the big inch v-twins don’t rev very high. My Buell XB9 redlines at 7500 rpm. It likes to rev within limits, but is wasn’t really built for it. It is important to understand where your engine is happy and ride it that way.

Definitely depends on the bike. I had a Ninja 250 with a 14,000 rpm redline. It required 3-4k just to get moving from a light and usually needed about 6k to feel happy at a steady speed. Highway cruising in 6th gear meant 8-9k at 70-75 mph. It seemed to just love to scream to 13k now and then under hard acceleration.

I thought the rule of thumb is pretty straight forward:

“Ride in lowish rpm (usually 2.5k to 5k depending on the bike) when cruising, shift down before you want to accelerate away so you don’t lug the engine.”

Yes, Running at a higher Rev for say for 30 miles or so at a gear lower than optimal for mileage is a good idea.... As for the cleaning of the heads... You can " burn off the carbon or dissolve it off " .... Carbon might be a lubricant in most forms.... but flaked carbon is abrasive, not something you'd want in your cylinders, better off to dissolve it away with additives and rev the bike through the higher rpm's to make this the method of removal over time.
Stay Safe.

I agree 110%. From my ATV, motorcycle, dirt bike, snowmobile, work van and personal vehicle…. They all have different engines and each one has its own happy RPM range.

ride with your throttle like your rpm.

Carbon buildup... I thought that was something of the carburetor era, where mixture was not exact but ballpark. 🙄
If I ever get another bike it'll be electric, at least they don't have a thousand parts and parameters to worry about.

I run my Road King Classic on the interstate quite a bit. Bike runs far better when i do! Noticeably. It's an older model with a 5 speed and a stock 88 inch twin cam. It is night and day how that bike runs between high speed operation and around town. I have also just recently discovered that the bike shifts and drives way better when i run it past 3K to shift. It is butter smooth!

If my Concours 14 wasn’t meant to turn low RPM at cruising speed, Kawasaki could have saved a lot of money with a single speed transmission. It can exceed the speed limits in most places in the US in first or second gear. My father told me long ago that the engine should always be spinning at an RPM where it can accelerate quickly and easily if necessary.

Just going from memory, but in watching the F9 video, he was on a 2-stroke bike. Those old bike really need the extra RPM to get the burned oil out of the engine. My impression from the video is downshifting and keeping the bike in the optimal power range is important. It is better for the engine and safety of the rider as well. Lugging engines leads to loss of traction at the rear wheel when you might need it most.

The Italian tune works , it burns off carbon and in at least 2 cases , for me , it has cured an oil burning problem .
The oil control ring on your piston gets gummed up with a delicious mix of oil and carbon , can't scrape the cylinder walls as well , and thus some oil gets left in the combustion side to burn .A few good pulls on an empty highway at 3 AM cleared that right up ( after i warmed the bike up of course , I am not a savage that gives all the beans to a cold engine ) . So every now and then find a nice open highway and pull the throttle wide open for as long as your balls allow it .
As far as performance gains go they are quite negligible so do not redline your engine expecting it to find power which was never there to begin with .
And check your tire pressure , i doubt you've done it recently

What we are missing here, is that high RPM, under light loads, results in LOWER combustion pressures and temperatures, than low RPM under a high load...
Running high RPM under low loads also means having an engine desperately trying to draw air through only partly opened throttle valves, meaning the scavenging is poor.

The statement, High RPM gives higher pressures and temperatures, is an invalid statement, without taking into account the load.
Doing 30 mph at close to redline RPM, will mess up your engine just as much as trying to accellerate at WOT in highest gear from just off idle RPM...

The thruth is in the middle: Occasionally, go through the gearbox with everything she's got, but in general it is best to cruise at the lowest RPM where the engine will respond to the throttle without "protesting" (We all know how that feels and what that means). This gear/RPM combo will be different for each different cruising speed.
Reason: At a given velocity, the power required to keep the bike coasting along is constant, because power required is strictly a function of vehicle speed. Power is torque x RPM. Torque=combustion pressure/temperature. Lower RPM for the same vehicle speed results in higher combustion pressure. Higher combustion pressure, by its sheer definition, results in better fuel efficiency. Better fuel efficiency results in lower carbon deposits.
This is valid down to where the engine will still respond comfortable to the throttle. Every halfway decent rider will immediately recognize that too low RPM as soon as he opens the throttle.

On the upper RPM range, ANY RPM above that of peak torque, will ALSO result in lower combustion pressures and less efficient combustion (more deposits).

ok, but if you take your engine to 50/60% for a while..(30/35) miles, you can clean the pistons, is enough.

My opinion is that it's best to mostly drive where the torque is and on occasion when there is endless straight I try to wake up all the ponnies just under limiter. Never mind the consumption, when I back up I spare probably less than 2 liters on 100 km. It doesn't pay off for the boring ride at all.

Yeah the F9 video perhaps gave a false impression that one should always ride around in the top half of your tach. Bothered me a bit. Sure, push the rpm now and then to prevent carbon build up, but you can still cruise at low rpm to save on wear and fuel. Not 'lugging the motor' is ok advice but in low load situations that's not happening. And is detonation really an issue on modern bikes with stock tunes? I hadn't thought so.

Glad ypu made this vid! Ive riden for the better part of my life but am NOT that mechanical (i can do basic maintenance but thats it). I do, however, understand carbon and burning it out because ive used firearm suppressors for quite awhile. One of my "cans" can not be disassembled for cleaning. It doesnt need to be. It runs a hot enough caliber that it (for the most part) cleans itself. But, with silencers in mind, i had to wonder - how much low rpm does it take to build up carbon and how much high rpm does it take to burn it out? Seemed like if you made the bike "work" once or twice per ride, the strolling would be balanced out.

I dont understand why people dont simply think of engines as us human meat sacks, we love to have a good balance, in the mornings we want to take it slow and warm up, then we start our day proper and speed things up, and finally the afternoon hits and we start to slow down again to chill, its the same for our engines, they love that balanced and varied life.

As Ryan states : "you paid for the full tachometer dial : use it all over". High RPM don't have to be constant high RPM. And the "balance " is very different between a 125cc two stroke dirt bike and a 1200cc roadster.

I have two bikes, an R1250GS that likes to be at around 3800 rpms as a minimum, unless im puttering through a busy street in town. My Triumph Speed twin 900 needs around 3300 to 3500 RPMs as a minimum to feel likes it spun up and ready, if that makes sense. Unless im puttering through town. I never have a need to go to redline. BMW redline is 9000 I don’t need more than 6500 maybe 7000 if im really getting it. Triumph redlines at 7500, really no need to go over 6000. Both bikes I usually stay between 3500 to 5000. I’ve been riding street bikes since 1984 when I was in the Air Force. My primary transportation today. Have a great day !