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I had also explored Pike and Shot tactics from renascence era for purpose of TW games. In your formation there is nice kill zone in the middle but all battalions have melee contact in approximately same time. I had hound that Adolfus cross formation is more efficient due to fact that ranged units are able to fire for prolonged period before melee contact.
Composition:
1 st battalion - 2 +1 strong melee (armored units), 2 ranged (armored and melee capable) units and 2 ranged soft units,
2nd and 3rd battalion - 1 strong melee (armored units), 3 ranged units (one in front and two on sides of the melee unit)
4th battalion - 1 strong melee (armored units), 2 ranged units (in front of melee unit)
Plus two free units (ranged or ordinary cavalry, hero or art) - something that can intervene in case of encirclement . I prefer a ranged cav.
First battalion should take point guard, second and third on the wings and back (second line) and forth behind (first) as a third line.
In skirmish phase, first battalion should have additional archer units, that are moved to second and third battalion on melee impact and additional strong melee units for troupe rotation. Remaining two melee capable ranged units are used to protect flanks of point guard melee unit.
2nd and 3rd battalion should do fire focus on enemy units that are flanking 1 st battalion. If something goes behind 1 st battalion (and enter kill zone), it should be picked up by 4th battalion and side ranged units from 2nd and 3rd battalion.
In principle, melee (for all units and especially for ranged units) should be at minimum.
Path before melee for the enemy should be as long as possible.
Fire should be focused, 4 ranged units fire at same enemy at all times.
Ration per battalion is 1 melee/3 (+1) ranged or 2 or 3 melee/4 (-2) ranged.
Ratio per army 6 melee, 12 ranged + 2 free units.
Hope this helps.
Do a pike and shot formation video with cataphs southern realms mod
Ответитьmaybe more thunderers instead of Troll torpedoes or maybe crossbow so you can have something they can shoot over units and have a little bit more range
Ответитьgood stuff dude
ОтветитьI really like these videos and they inspire different tactics in my armies. I've been formulating one for the Greenskins to try to combine the spirit of Gork and Mork to work in harmony in it's formation. Anyways, I was thinking it might be worth trying formulating ideas for siege battles. Assuming of course there isn't an army of towers and rams or the attrition hasn't obliterated the garrison. I know sieges aren't currently popular but it could be valuable especially if your hand is forced for whatever reason in campaign.
ОтветитьWhat PC specs are you running? This is sooo smooth even with the crazy amount of war happening.
ОтветитьThink this would work as Skaven? Would swap in warp fire throwers for close fire support, rattling guns for middle troops, warp lock jazels in place of the troll torpedos, plagueclaw catapults in place of the organ guns and a lightning cannon in place of the cannon. Biggest point of concern would be the stormvermin being able to hold the line long enough =/
ОтветитьI'm not sure how much of an impact the modded orcs had on the battle, but this looked like your entire army got overrun and broken (despite their phyrric victory). The melee troops were too few to hold the line against that many orcs. Just going off of this one battle (with a preferred terrain advantage), I can definitely tell that - had this been a campaign battle - my army would be out of the fight for several turns and unable to engage enemies.
For Dwarfs myself, I usually try just going with a gunline of at least 6 thunderers 6 ironbreakers, 2 irondrakes and 2 longbeards cover the flanks of the gun line. I'll keep some reserves in the form of 2 cannons, 1 lord and 1 engineer. Simply put, the tactics are to make a straight line of the thunderers with the ironbreakers just behind. The two lines switch as melee is about to ensue. If the enemy has cavalry (as is often the case) my longbeards will be far enough behind the 2nd line to screen my artillery (if not act as a 3rd 'line' of reserves). If the enemy leaves their flanks exposed, that's when my irondrakes will run around, shoot some flamethrowers, and eventually swap out with the longbeards to press the flanks (assuming they weren't needed in the center to fight off any monsterous creatures. Once the thunderers are out of ammo, or if the enemy pushes through the 1st line, they have the capability of taking on exhausted enemies well enough to generally win the fight.
Maybe my tactics for dwarfs are too...mainstream for TWW3 players, but it's the best adaptation from linear warfare from the 17-19th centuries in a style that fit the Dwarf roster. Since I started a Dwarf campaign in TWW3 and found miners with demo charges to be very handy, I'm considering revamping the roster to include them in the 2nd line and forego the switch of the lines (basically doing what I've done previously in ETW, with grenadiers throwing grenades over the heads of my line infantry to help push the enemy off of melee). I hope you have a follow up video for a way to improve Dwarven forces in a way that is more sustainable for campaign play. Looking forward to more Total Tactics!
Suppose, if you wanted a cheaper version of this, longbeards and miners with blasting charges might serve for frontline and close support. Probably bolt or grudge throwers for arty
ОтветитьMalleus: Those Rock Idols, literally made of rocks and orks poo.
Me: Wait, what?!
I have to say the idea of using real life battle tactics in the strategy game is awsome.
I tried the Dutch Reform Pike & Shoot from your video and it was very easy to play.
since you're fighting ai, is there a formation just for braindead enemies? they're just going to run at you so maybe a funnel of some sort akin to chevron style formations. something that might be obvious to a human but confusing to an ai. some sort of meat grinder. like the calvalry diamond but more maneuverable.
ОтветитьOne of the Dwarfs' big weaknesses is slow movement speeds. While formations like this pretty clearly helped with that, I think it would be worth it to consider taking some faster moving units to serve as 'cavalry' in a sense. Obviously the Dwarf roster lacks anything in it to be used in the exact same manner as cavalry, but taking a couple units of slayers or gyrocopters/bombers wouldn't be a bad idea, at least to me. They give your army some much needed mobility and can really mess up big blobs of enemies in the case of the copters and bombers with their bombing runs.
And in the case of Slayers, you can quite literally sacrifice them for the sake of your more important units. Take this same battle scenario as in the video. Now add 2 or 3 slayers that can quite literally body block the entrance of the pass, slowing the enemies down as they fight to the death since they're unbreakable and your ranged units have even more time to fire into the horde that is quickly bunching up around the Slayers. This is also thematic for the army. Dwarf Slayers quite literally live to die in battle to regain their lost honor. Sacrificing themselves to slow down a massive horde of green skins and give their kin as much time as possible to decimate the enemy, thereby ensuring even fewer can reach the dwarf lines, is perfectly in line with the mind set of the Slayers.
Hi Malleus, sorry if question is not pertinent to this video but i want know your opinion; What you think of this unreasonable shut down of CA that not infrom us for next dlc and update (the chaos dwarf) and the most important thing the fact that it is clear that they don't want to do anything (if they had the courage to say so), what you think for the actual future of TWW3.
ОтветитьExcellent format, good stuff, thanks for cinematic + tactical view
ОтветитьTry byzantine tactics with bretonia next time, see where that takes you.
ОтветитьThis be going into the book for so many lost to the urk.
Ответитьcan we do these with more unorthodox factions? like woodelves, orcs or undead.
Ответитьwhat map is this?
ОтветитьCan i get a ROCK AND STONE BROTHERS
ОтветитьF*** good very immersive
ОтветитьI was seeking a good formation for my Dawi armies, this one is nice but I've maybe put a bit less Ironguys for Hammerers or even Longbeards
But anyway with that much firepower no Greenskin can get through ^^
I'll have to try this! Playing Belegar with the triple tercio and it's great fun, even with crossbows instead of guns, early game greenskins have no answer to it
ОтветитьAwesome videos, just one suggestion when you show the formation use different colors for different roles, instead of all blue and just changing the symbol, it would be much easier to understand the formation with just a glimps ( ex. Red melee infantry, blue the artillery etc...)
ОтветитьYeah, Dwarves have it tough, without any cav or fast units to guard the flank. You really have to just box it up, because you can't adjust quickly to flanking maneuvers. I think in a case like this where you are really outnumbered, it is always gonna be a brutal battle. But any one you walk away from is a win.
I think skirmish cav is really useful for baiting and distracting any flanking force. But only in open maps where they have room to run. If it's a small map or they get caught, they are toast.
Definitely think you should make some mod showcase videos. A ‘ultimate campaign’ with the best unit, settlement, faction, graphic, etc. mods for each race would be awesome!
ОтветитьThis one felt like something right out of Warhammer. Loved it. Especially the fact that a bare handful of Dawi make it to see a new dawn! Grudge AVENGED.
ОтветитьThanks Malleus! I really appreciate these tactics videos, I feel most of my battles are just line up the infantry as meat shield and let ranged units fire in from behind. Works great with Elves and archers but I struggle with gunpowder units.
ОтветитьI know you didn’t make this video just for me - but also thanks for making this video specifically for me. Love these formation and tactics videos!
ОтветитьGreat vid, mate! I really enjoy your analysis of the battle and the unfolding chaos^^
Ever considered to "Lets play" a campaign?
Great video as always, oh and...
DID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE ?