Why Ass to Grass Squats Don't Use the Longest Effective Range of Motion with Mark Rippetoe

This concept of "effective range of motion" is a wildcard Rip has invented to avoid discussions about mobility, something he despises, probably because him and his trainees are about as mobile as refrigerators. The adjective "effective" does all of the work, but all it really is is an arbitrary stab at "a good compromise between load, tension and ROM" (if I were to summarize it). And it's not a terrible stab either! The squat form Rip advocates for will get you strong.

But squatting full depth, provided you have the adequate mobility, weightlifting shoes and warm up properly will also get you strong. Tons of powerlifters get great results using a more moderately loaded full depth squat to challenge their legs more and it carries over great to their competition squat. The same can not be said in reverse - it is exceedingly rare for weightlifters to squat low bar, because it doesn't translate to their sport.

The critique about "relaxing" only really holds true if A) you're dive bombing your squat and bouncing way too much, which will injure you in the long run, or B) if you lack the proper technique and mobility, so you have to rely on option A. Tons of strong lifters perform ass to grass pause squats and seem to manage fine.

Having strength in that bottom range of motion can be critical for all kinds of athletes, not just weightlifters, for things like injury prevention and general stability. Never training it, and then ending up in that position when you take a fall is a ticket to getting snapped up.

ATG uses less muscle. The goal is to use the most. Case closed.

Well he's just saying that one let's yyoublift a lot more weight. But at a certain point, for health reasons, that might not be your priority anymore. Maybe you could do your warmups deep to still try to get some flexibility in there. And there's another thing, a deep upright high bar back squat can transfer over and give you the increase in strength to your low bar parrallel squat in a few weeks, but the opposite isn't true.

My body doesnt like ATG back squats, it feels it's gunna get f$Ed up as I have really long femur. Front squats no probs.

For all the arguments in the comments: Powerlifting rules are applied to RIPS logic in the video. .

Rip is talking about powerlifting when powerlifting rules are applied. ATG makes no sense for POWERLIFTING. It does however make a lot of sense for things like Weightlifting or seeing who has more joint mobility, skill, and strength.

The purpose of ATG is that it is more difficult to come out of. It takes more strength to come out of an ATG than parallel.
The fact that he says a 315 ATG is the same as a parallel 405 shows that the ATG is more difficult.

Both have their merits. ATG is a pure display of strength + mobility. This is why Olympic lifters do high-bar ATG. Parallel is the test of how much weight you can squat without a cheat ROM which is why power lifters do Parallel low-bar squats.

100% agree. For the same reason one should not incorporate a calf raise at the top of a squat.

I personally do not like the idea of squatting 405 for reps but not being able to pause 275 ass to grass. For me in my 30s I care more about being consistently strong throughout my entire capacity of range of motion, not just the effective range of motion. My knees and hips will thank me.

So Mark, let me ask you this: How come the Olympic weightlifting lifters who ass to grass squat have bigger leg muscles than half-squat pencil neck legs powerlifters ???

Why does it matter that you lift more if you limit your body's mobility to do so? Of course you can lift more if you travel less distance. You can handle less weight ATG because you need to restart all your momentum entirely.

If all we want is who can move the most weight, why not just unrack, walkout then rerack? We're already on the way with modern "power lifting". Let's just full send.

In my personal opinion, I value longevity in strength and a lifetime of vitality over being able to peak in my early 20's and needing a warmup to sit down in my 70's.

Unless you're first or second year into weight training, you shouldn't be listening to this guy. He doesn't really understand proper biomechanics. He knows the basics to keep you out of trouble, and injury free, but he doesn't really know much more than that. Ass to grass is crucial for snatch and cleans. It translates better into real world athletic performance.

wouldnt this exact arguement be valid for squatting one inch above parallel?

There is a reason why everyone who squats ass to grass do it with light weight or have skinny legs.

ATG is bro science.

long story short making people do low bar barely parallel squats makes your program look better because its easier to do more weight

If you choose your opinion before researching you end up justifying what you already believe to be superior and very often make a fool of yourself.

Paul Anderson had it wrong? If you think sitting at the bottom of a squat with even 500 pounds is relaxing? well it's not . It does let the knees relax by transferring the load to the hips. If your talking max lifted in a contest cutting it razor thin would help with the numbers. One last thing if there is no benefit for muscle than a 500 pound squatter barely breaking the threshold should be able to do full ROM for shits and grins.

the reason i squat atg is because it's harder. plain and simple. it helps me jump higher, run sprints faster and builds more explosiveness because you have to generate power from a deficit. i can squat way more parallel. i'm interested in kicking harder and moving bodies, not lifting for numbers.

If you have to relax anything at the bottom of a movement, it's prolly not ideal.

What exactly is relaxed during an ATG squat? The deeper you go the more muscle mass is required to lift the weight, yes of course the weight goes up with a lesser range of motion, that’s just physics but to say you’re relaxed in an atg isn’t accurate. That’s like saying my triceps are relaxed when the barbell touches my chest in a bench press

Atg squats make me horny tho

Let's assume that certain muscles do relax in an ATG squat. Exactly how long are you pausing in the bottom position? If you're doing 5 reps of paused squats with a 10 second pause, then this argument makes some sense. When most lifters do a heavy squat they want to maximize the stretch reflex - I know I do - so there's really no pause at all at the bottom of an ATG. At most you're looking at milliseconds. You're not going to get stronger by keeping tension on a muscle for a few extra milliseconds. In addition, as I have said before, biomechanics tells us that the hamstring do not, and cannot, contract that much in a squat. In fact, the hamstrings do not change their length in a squat. They are activated, I am not disputing that, but they are acting as dynamic stabilizers for the knee for most of the movement. The hamstrings only contract forcefully at the top of the lift, when the quads have finished their job, to help straighten the torso. Yes, I've read the blue book, but that explanation is not consistent with biomechanics. As for working the quads, the extra ROM in an ATG provides a greater stretch to the muscles of the group that make up the quads and force these muscles to work harder i.e., produce more force. I believe the vastus medialis worked the hardest at ATG but I'll need to review the literature. Therefore, ATG is the more effective range of motion for the muscle groups (quads, glutes, adductors) that the squat actually works. The squat is a crappy hamstring exercise - always was, always will be.

No wonder so many half reppers think this guy is filled with "squat knowledge" lmao. This just shows how many people are just too big of a PUSSY to go ATG. Nobody is "relaxing" going ATG, in fact, the weak people who never train ATG get the MOST injuries and the LEAST range of motion. If you think going ATG is relaxing, then try your half squat MAX going ATG and tell me how "relaxing" it is lol. This fat smurfs head is just TOO far up his own ass when he talks about squats.

What's your opinion on squatting and spinal compression as one ages?

Hwhy?

Going or not going ass to the grass squats depends on what one is attempting to achieve. If you're an Olympic weightlifter you sure as hell better be going ass to the grass squats. If you're a powerlifter or bodybuilder it would probably be best not to go ass to the grass. If you're a UFC fighter ass to the grass power is best if you get your legs crunched up against a fence. For myself as far as real world functional strength I was forced to pick up a very ill 180lb no handle grip mastiff dog laying flopped on his side to get
him to the vet immediately. If I didn't train ass to the grass front & back squats this task would have been much more difficult in a real life out in the field functional situation. It all comes down to what type of strength or muscle development one is looking to achieve.

High bar upright rigid torso, everything engaged, will force the lifter into rock bottom at maximum load. Full dorsiflexion required, naturally.

He talks like Ron White

Rippetoe rationalizing his quarter squats lol

stop mowing your grass

Doing fahv by fahv calf raises. Linear progression is slowing on this lift. When should I switch to conjugate??? Help!

When you use the word in the definition of the word... Rip, the master of "because I said so", and if you're not convinced, "let me ramble on until it sounds like I'm making a point."

Lowbar Back squat just below parallel and Front squats ATG works perfectly for me.

Only fat ppl make this excuse. ATG is the only way to squat.

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What I learned:
a) There is no force required to squat from ATG up to parallel so why bother squatting that deep.
b) Squatting 315 ATG < squatting 405 from just below parallel. Therefore we can conclude that doing a 500lb quarter squat > 405 just below parallel because more force is required.
c) Every time you curl or do ab work a puppy dies

It seems that not everyone can have the same effectiveness with ATG when the case is ... that's not really necessary for efficient training results?

Thanks for share this Mark

Rips just confused about having feelings for Clarence Kennedy

I dared my friend to do one pistol squat and he threw his back out - I can't do one myself.
BTW, The Starting Strength book goes into detail on the benefits and body mechanics of the squat - that gave me courage to try it out. For several months now; the arthritis pain in my hips has been kept in check by doing squats. Started out with no weight.

This dude is an advocate for power cleans for the average joe. 'Nuff said.

Does this also mean Starting Strength is against the Box Squat?

Holy shit!!!...This was helpful. Thank you.

I've never squatted a2g and I can box jump to the height of my own chest/shoulders and have some beastly kicks. In fact I typically go just above parallel, and don't even deadlift. You don't need to do all kinds of internet hipster exercises in the gym to be functionally strong.

Not perfectly articulated but I’ve never seen anyone try to argue against ATG squats before.

ATG feels so much better though, I feel so much more... accomplished and capable.

I wonder if the Engineers from Prometheus go ass to grass.