John Dehlin vs. Stick of Joseph REACTION-Stream!

Poor John, oh what a twit.

You know what just irritates me to death? That John Dehlin and every other church bashing influencers use the church to make their money. “I hate the church but boy I’m going to use it to make money” They all have very deep issues that they haven’t addressed or even tried to resolve. It’s sad!

I wish you had talked about the young man who was with JD. What is his story? Sad that he has been deceived byJD.

As a member of the church, your lack of compassion and delight in his pain has been disgusting to watch. Why would anyone want to come back to the church after being so severely mocked. The laughing comment about pausing on his frowning face had my jaw drop let alone the comment about him barely being a child of God made me want to cry. Joke or not it was not called for. You did not display to John that "our father in heaven loves you no matter where you're at" in this episode. You proved why so many are walking away. Your clear hatred for this man clearly showed throughout this episode. Thank you though, this episode is the only one I've watched and I will not be coming back.

I am a former mormon which means my bias naturally leans away from you guys but even so I think you did great. Kuddos to you guys for being willing to go on his show and speak your perspective.

I just want to keep commenting on this so people can see how judgmental, rude, and non-Christlike these ‘Mormons’ are.

Do y’all really think that everyone who leaves the church just starts drinking and swinging? Have you met more than one or two ex-Mormons? You need to get out more…

To everyone complaining about how mean and rude the Paul’s were and also ward radio. Listen to what the Paul’s say about John in the first 5 minutes. Yes Cardon and Jonah said some mean things here but that’s the nature of their channel. They make jokes. I’ve seen way harsher jokes from those John has had on his show and it’s not even close. Also to everyone defending John, howbout all the times in this video where they point out John’s blatant lies about statistics and facts?? What do you say to that?

Hayden and Jackson - you always tried to point back to your faith in Jesus Christ and his atonement throughout your conversation with John Dehlin, especially when you could not defend the actions and words of Prophets who proclaim to speak the mind and will of the Lord. And yet you do not get anywhere near to acting in a Christlike way towards John. Hard to look at you guys as Christians when you can't even follow the greatest commandment that Christ gave (Love God and Love Neighbor). And then you spend 2 hours on Ward Radio bashing John. Your intent is not to lead people to Christ, it is clear that your intent is to disparage people who think differently than you. Your words refer to your belief in Jesus but your attitude towards John tell me you follow a god of pride, selfishness, and deceit. The deceit being your claim of following the Savior! Luckily you kids are young and you still have growing up to do. Maybe you will learn real humility and love in the Savior's way - at some point in the future.

These Anti-Mormon lurkers in here sure are grumpy. Oh what twits they are. Yes, big twits indeed.

all I gotta say is that everything about ward radio and these joseph stick bros is next-level cringe

Its like, everything about Anti-Mormons is cringe cringe and cringe. Cringe like a cringe machine on cringe day.

Clowns!

Funny how we can see the same video, an see it so different. I saw ignorant and arrogant young boys, with no history knowledge degrading a great man telling them that he has been through. Not one time did they try to understand where John came from.... They seems to have their heads in som sugarcoated land of the ignorance.
Go back and walk his shoes . Or atleast try to understand what the church does to a lot of people.. People on his show are people who has been hurt by the church .. even if you yourself as a straight white man hasnt been hurt by the church.. try to understand that isn't the same for everyone. The church, made up by a fraud a long time ago.. has nothing to to with Jesus!

And why do you think John Delhin have so much power, that he, alone distroys people beliefs?
No! The church distroys and kills, and then peple need a safe place to tell their story and feel love and understanding.
The LDS church shouldn't be allowed to talk about Jesus before they throw away their fake bible... And, stop believing this old raisins on top talk to anyone..

And do you all put your vote on Trump too right?
He was smart enough to put the bate on, telling you he is against abort , and you, like a big fishsteam , believe it's smart to take the bate😂😂😂

From a utilitarian perspective, Dehlin is providing space for people who cannot find that within the LDS church. Many people who leave, maybe most, truly seek both sides and think long and hard. Because the decision ends in leaving, that doesn't place responsibility at Dehlin's feet. To Dehlin's point about having love for our fellow man, if there were room inside the LDS church for discussion and wrestling, the membership would probably still be growing at historic rates. The truth can withstand debate and has nothing to fear.

I see good on both sides. The biggest difference in my mind is that these guys are so sure about things they can't really even know.

I have lived long enough to see changes in church culture and teachings. It's better now than it was then. That means it was worse then

People seem to think that if God decrees something then that means it's objective. Objective means something that is independent, something that would still exist regardless of anything else. If God decrees a thing, then he is the arbiter of that thing and the thing is then arbitrary. Truly objective truth would be independent of even God.

What's insidious about the atonement is the teaching that people are worthy of eternal punishment

Justice is a human desire, not a universal truth. The reason the world is getting more just than in the past is because humans are making it that way

Sadly, it does seem like people need fictional narratives in order to find meaning

Did he seriously just claim that victims of SA are lying?

Kamala Harris? Does that mean these guys are Trump supporters? How could anyone in their right mind think that Trump is a good candidate?

Johnny truly got crushed. Poor poor Anti-Mormons, when will they ever get their way.

Al Capone paid for many soup kitchens for the poor, which is more than the Mormon church does with their 265 Billion dollars, the church builds malls

LOL, John's discussion with the Stick Of Joseph "bros" was absurd. Their responses were so ridiculous. LOL

The atonement of Jesus Christ isn't insidious Witbeck, its just fucking made up.

Look "bro" #1, you derailed John's "rapid fire" questions because YOU HAVE NO FUCKING ANSWERS. That's why. Don't pretend otherwise. Praise Jesus, let's all just love Jesus..........and let's ignore the massive fucking problems with Church truth claims. Bravo

Anti-Mormons sure get angry.

It seems, if they are so happy and content with life, that they would be off doing other things.

Poor poor miserable hateful Anti-Mormons. When will they ever get their way?

I'm on mobile rn, what are the dislikes at?

It was a valiant effort, and you have to give credit for the stick of Joseph guys going into the lions den, but they were out of their league. For the record, I am a very firm believer in the restoration, but the weak spot true believers have when going on Mormon stories is their reluctance to admit any error on the church’s part. “The brethren” CAN be wrong, and HAVE been wrong, and being unwilling to admit that just makes you look bad. It takes a lot of mental gymnastics to maintain the church’s narrative when being really pressed about it. There are answers to John’s questions, but you have to go outside of the traditional church dogma in order to find adequate answers.

Bro thinks he's an online martyr 💀

Look up the Bible. 1 Timothy 1:10
for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,

Gay? What does the Bible say re paul brothers talk re 35 Minutes in? Look up the Bible. 1 Timothy 1:10
for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,

Youve got to give Johnny some credit, the old dude tried his hardest to put up a real fight, but the old guy is used to just mumbling into a microphone about a religion he really doesn't know anything about. He's really not a debate person, just a talker.

It was interesting to hear them talk about the root of the tree and not the branches. To begin with the Mormon church has a very bad root in its history. 1. Joseph smith was not a hardworking man, he looked through rocks and a hat to look for lost treasures. 2. four different stories about the "first vision" 3. No evidence for the people of Nephi in America 4. secret practice of polygamy. 5. false doctrines from Brigham Young, 6. Book of Abraham is made up, 7. Joseph Smith mixed politics with religion. 8. Priesthood is not for gentiles according to the Bible. 9, changes to Doctrine and covenants after it was printed the first book. 10. No evidence of any kind or source from his young age of talking about the vision and being persecuted as a consequence. Another interesting thing is the root of the tree for marriage according to God in Genesis it was one wife and not more than forty like Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and other general authorities. this makes them liars, sinners and criminals according to the Law in the United States. I admire John Dehlin for being honest to himself for stepping away from the church after he realized the church changes the story as it goes. Many members prefer to stay because they don't want trouble with family, friends, their Jobs and the Mormon culture they have lived for many years. I am from Mexico but Thanks to my English I have access to information many members in Mexico don't have.

I watched every single second of the interview. These boys are completely ignorant of actual data or facts. Feelings don’t matter.

I think you've unintentionally (but significantly) mischaracterized John's "alternative" to the atonement. He clearly indicated there would be consequences, and the ability to make good or bad choices. He proposed how to deal with bad choices, by teaching empathy and humanizing people in their mistakes, as opposed to there being some cosmic piggy bank that needs to be paid an infinite amount for any bit of sin. Satan's plan, in contrast, was that there would NOT be any agency -- not because there's no consequence, but because people would not even have the ability to do bad things in the first place. It would be just forced goodness, and he would get all of God's glory. That's a hell of a lot to shoe-horn into his point about justice not requiring a "whipping boy".

Now, when he was asked if everyone should just be saved, he said he thinks would be better than eternal punishment for finite actions. HE did put that forth as an integral part, but was answering the question posed to him, in a "if it had to A or B", well, B is better *A*. That's all he said on that matter.

As for everything else, I have to agree it was kind of sh*tshow, and he was very out of sorts IMHO. But I just wanted to set the record straight on THAT matter. It looks like y'all JUMPED at the chance to equate what he said with exactly Satan's plan. I understand that LDS theology only those 2 options as a B&W dichotomy, but that doesn't mean automatically mean that Satan's plan is exactly what someone is conceptually proposing, if it's not the LDS plan of salvation via Jesus' atonement (e.g. I like what "The Good Place" show, does with the matter of salvation).

Also, I have to thank you for pointing out the false CA statistics; I looked it up myself, several different ways, and yeah Utah is roughly average in that matter, per capita. I do take issue with the certain patterns of protecting abusers while putting more kids at risk, but it seems clear that such instances have been conflated with overall abuse stats, and I'm glad to stand corrected there. Nobody is done any favors by false info.

I am a postmo myself, and a big fan of MSP in general, but watching this episode has me realizing that I need to be careful about balancing my information sources 😬. I will probably be watching your show more regularly!

Btw, I think these brothers did a great job with John, and it's awesome that they were willing to come on MSP. Best to y'all!

You guys are terrible. The reason I left the church is because of people like you, not people like John Dehlin.

Ward Librarian-what a clown and embarrassment of a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. You claim to be the only guy on planet earth to watch the whole episode?? Why am I even surprised that you speak in absolutes. The level of arrogance and claim that your the "only guy" to watch it amazes me. The Two Marine oorahs who are just as disgusting and at least in Haydens example of how he watches or reads books must be the way your talking about watching the whole episode right Ward? You know since Haydens way of studying things are little pieces and versus here and there and boom, he read the whole book or watched hundreds of hours of mormon stories episodes. Hayden to say you haven't even watched the episode and you were there is exactly the issue with you so called true believers of "the One True Restored Church on the face of the planet". Are you afraid of listening to the level of cringe you two said. I wish you'd all come back in 10 years and re listen to your BS. You mock someone or anyone who doesn't align with your world view. "Codified Cardon" mockingly having someone like Hayden defend him at the last judgment and then laughing about it gives the exact level of "bro" this religion seems to have turned into for some of its members apparently. And you two oorahs might want to check with your chain of command as to why you can't disclose who you support politically or where your deploying too generally at least from what you stated in Johns episode but all of sudden in this episode you can share "everything" according to you. Which is it, you can or cant? Last I checked so long as your not in uniform you can voice your political views but clearly you don't want to share specifics of a deployment for safety reasons. Middle east, south korea, japan africa or australia would be appropriate responses unless your reserve unit doesn't have that deployment info or your reserve unit is part of an elite high speed low drag unit. Members of the armed forces May "Register to vote, vote, and express a personal opinion on political candidates and issues, but not as a representative of the Armed Forces" By Capt. Morgan Engling 633d Air Base Wing Staff Judge Advocate.
Aside from that please keep sharing your toxic personalities because this "whole" episode is exactly what is causing humble faithful members to struggle to defend unchrist like attributes by its "faithful" members. You tools men and women alike are an embarrassment to Christ's teachings. Plain garbage.

This display of dishonest, unintelligent unprofessionalism from this group of believers has done more to draw me away from the church than anything on mormon stories. How dare a man ask you questions about the history of your faith that you are unprepared for? Its clear these men put a facade up about how informed they are abour their OWN beliefs. Embarrassing. Not very led by faith, leader of the home of you, fellas.

As a Church member who loves defending the faith, I enjoy so much of Ward Radio, but I'm a hard pass with all the politics. Saints are not all Red State Christian Nationalists. I guess I'm not your audience. It's hard to stomach the politics. I eventually exited this episode without finishing.

This channel actually makes me not want to go to church. What a waste of time

A few years ago, our then 16-year-old daughter, seemingly out of nowhere started spouting off diatribes against the church that were clearly not part of her own experience within the church. It became fairly obvious she was being fed this stuff from her boyfriend whose father was under the spell of John Dehlin at the time which clearly affected his own kids. In hindsight, it is easy to see how this put into turbo-drive her rebelling against our values and getting involved in behaviors that put her mental and physical well-being at great risk. The ultimate source? John Dehlin--even though it is unbeknownst to her. John Dehlin’s effect on our family has been nothing BUT anti-family. I disdain what he does.