[TF2] MvM's Worst Class

Forgot to mention the eternal reward

I say rather than AOE, maybe give spy a boost in tankbusting, and have the sapper act like the carbine in that it allows armor penetration to kick in, and spy can rampage on a tank

Just off the top of my head as someone who has barely touched MvM, hasn't played TF2 in probably nearly a decade, and Spy was my least played class by far when I did play:

A. Auto-backstab on sapped robots regardless of facing (ultimately minor but come on, they're literally bent over at the waist)
B. Replace same-team disguises with (possibly placeable) decoys to lure/distract/redirect/draw aggro/whatever/etc
C. Chain effect on sappers
D. Sap effect on backstabs
E. Refill cloak on backstabs

His the worst class in the entire game

Why not an upgrade that makes it so spy can do an extra backstab before being undisguised, or makes robots less likely/take longer to aggro on spy?

Im playing it all time, i don't find the issue.

Another upgrade that would make spy reliable would be silent backstabs that makes it take longer for robots to aggro when you backstab

More like [TF2] M̶v̶M̶'̶s̶ Worst Class

I would give Spy a Combo system. The more backstabs or hits you land the more hp you get. Maybe after certain thresholds for add speed or recharge levels. That or money. If you miss a attack or take too long between kills the chain resets.

One thing that i always wanted in mvm spy was to be able to upgrade your knife to have other knife's habilities, for example the Kunai's health on kill or Big Earner's cloak and boost for the YER or Spy-cicle.

And maybe an upgrade that makes him less targetable by robots or even a dodge upgrade that gives him invincibility when he is low health to give him a chance at actually surviving, remember playing as spy in mvm is already risky since you could be way more useful as any other class (specially against tanks since you basically have no DPS)

maybe sappers should slow down tanks or damage them over time

Spy struggles in the early game because he needs a few upgrades to really preform, BUT late game spy is crazy good

The last wave on mannhattan with all the giant heavies is a GREAT wave to play spy on
Wave 5 of metro malice is great for spy as you easily clear the FOS heavies from the top and take out the giant medics fast

Spy requires a little more knowledge/gamesense to know when to use him and therefore isnt a noob friendly class like heavy or soldier

Early game spy is also the BEST money collector if you just take the dead ringer and avoid aggroing any bots that can kill you, and yes I 100% mean it when I say spy is better at money collecting than scout. You can easily replace the scout with a spy if your soldier is consistent with the buff banner minicrits, which is better anyways because it minicrits all robots instead of one deathmarked target at a time that scout does, this just relies on your soldier/team positioning well so everyone doing damage gets the minicrits (and can enable some funny headbug spots for heavy by letting him ignore damage falloff)

Anyways if u know what you're doing, spy is great and can consistently collect money and kill giants and special nongiants (fist of steel heavies) faster, but newer players should just stick to scout

Fuck it

Explosive backstabs

Valve: sees that Spy is the weakest class in MvM
Also Valve: "You know what? Your Eternal Reward would be too strong in that game mode. Let's nerf it to the point of being completely useless."

just make eternal reward work correctly lol

spy could get a smaller money magnet, but also all money HE pick up is increased by like 20%, Does that sound good?

sappers

Personally I think a good idea would be to let spy’s disguise last more than 1 attack. For example a start would be 3 stabs before you undisguised, or give him the ability to negate aggro on him upon losing the disguise,. Aka after a successful kill he has __ seconds of being immune to aggro so he has time to escape or squeeze in a few more hits

well, you can use the eternal reward for crowd control. but yeah spy isn't great

Agree 100%. It's a shame, since I'd rather the spy play-style most of the time.
My biggest suggestion would be to give him the EMP grenade from the original Team Fortress in place of the sapper and a cheap upgrade to restore the Ambassador back to it's original 110% critical headshot. Pair that with the Your Eternal Reward for chain stabbing small bots with impunity and he's looking like a more well-balanced class for MVM.

The EMP Grenade would be a great addition in general and function more like the way the sapper was advertised in Meet the Spy.

Havent watched the vid yet but you are wrong

You can shoot using the le trngur

Yes, he is the worst class in MVM. But that doesn't mean he's bad. He has a very specific role, and can almost be interchangeable with scout. A money spy with full resistances and speed as well as armor penetration to get rid of large medics is up for discussion on if he can rival Scout or not. Most times, no.

I recommend insta spawn canteen rather than ammo canten it cost just 10 saxtollars and it gives you a speedboost and regen instantly your cloack and sapper the tp is up so you be there instantly not forgetting you insta delete the robots aggro they will still be attacking to nothing despite you already go in first place

You only spend 90 saxtollars if you use all 9 in the 3 waves


It counts as you died so dont use with kunai or diamond back

STABBING THE TANK!? HOW COULD YOU FORGET,
SPY HAS A GUN

I think the sapper decreasing giant turning speed could be an interesting buff, allowing him to more easily circle strafe around robots at the cost of not using it for smaller bot hords

Just return YER its stats.

I like the suggestions for improving spy! Here's my suggestion: give the conniver's kunai an upgrade of 1000 credits to make the overheal gimmick unlimited OR limited to (at max level (probably 5)) 5000

All he needs is YER to work properly

Virginia servers ain't that bad

Early in my MVM career I was playing on Bigrock and attempted to go spy to deal with the giant medics, despite a low tour count I am pretty knowledgeable about the gamemode and I knew that, since we didn't have a demo, a spy would've been a good counterpick. Unfortunately a high tour on my team started yelling at me about playing spy and threw the wave, then kicking me for the pick, I didn't really know what happened and attempted to argue my case but I was kicked regardless. Not a fun experience for someone who already doesn't play the gamemode too much

how i would make spy viable:
1. add an aoe money pickup similar to scout, but with no overheal
2. add an 'explosive headshot' effect upon spy killing a robot with a backstab, linked to armor pen upgrade
3. when apply a sapper to a giant robot, the giant robot is no longer able to detect spy for its duration

fixes his total lack of aoe, removes the circle-strafe jimmying required to kill giants (his specialty), and gives him some interchangeability with his son as the team's front line money-grabber

my ping once was in 5 digits 10001 ping

okay but consider: third degree effect for all the knives. multiple medics? not anymore!

Spy needs explosive backstab.

I remember playing with this spy main named "Revolver Knight" and all he did was play revolver gunspy and he was pretty damn good too. I hope he is still out there slaying robots with his revolver

I believe pyro is easily without a doubt the worst class in the game cuz of how easy it is to die as pyro and how much more spy can do in the hands of a competent player. Also tank spy actually does exist but it's obviously not as good as other classes, stock revolver with firing speed and clip size and just spam the tank with crits, it does higher dps during that time than the sniper carbine bushwhacker combo

What I would like is more sapper effects like make it so a sapped giant gets friendly fire and aggro. Maybe make a knife upgrade to not drop disguise on a successful backstabbing. Maybe backstabbing causes a bleed effect on giants.

Make your eternal reward the crowd control knife with some buffs and a bug fix

When I play x100 mvm, I made entire team go spy on last wave where there 3 tanks, and we won. Spy is too easy in x100.

only person who does not know how to play spy in mvm says that it is the worst class, spy can deal more damage than the scout, while being more reliable as the scout

Ok hear me out, backstabbing a sapped robot zaps/explodes/whatever all nearby sapped robots. Gives spy a bit of crowd control thats more fair and satisfying than gas. Spy is already fine at collecting money but giving spy a reason to upgrade sapper, a cooldown based crowd control would give it just that bit of oomf it needs, instead of the team getting more use than the spy out of a small group of robots that stand perfectly still. Makes groups of medics consistent to take down, clears the filler bots away so you can circle giants easier (would still have to use it smartly). It wouldnt be anywhere near as overtuned as gas, wouldnt be reliant on an unlock, wouldn't make you question life when 90% of the wave is just small bot spam, instead you can semi frequently take down a pile of robots. Think of the third degree pyro axe, but for sapped robots. Could even throw in a "bleed" effect for sapped giants but that would be a bit superfluous, but at least you wouldnt have to play huntsman sniper to have some neglible bleed effect. If a sapper slowly saps away a sentry guns health why would it not do it for a robot

I play spy in MVM a fair bit and you are entirely correct

Explosive Sapper. That’s all imma say.

When play correctly spy is VERY GOOD. He is just hard to play and bots punish your every mistake very hard. You just need to understand your role. Scout outdamages him on tanks though... and there is no point in having both spy and scout.

I mean I mostly play spy in MvM unless we need a specific class then I'll switch