CD vs Streaming quality

There's something spiritually empty about streaming. But it has its place in a world of corporate nomads and oddly enough, perhaps, the 3rd world too.

Did the person do a real, blind, ABX test or did they do the switching themselves?
Too much opportunity for selection bias in all this.

There are differences in encoders for things like MP3/AAC but if it's done to FLAC, should not be a difference between the lossless services at least. In theory and assuming they are truly lossless.

It would be very interesting to upload a sample to these services, then play it back from the service in a Null Test ... that would show us how much actual difference there is.

It never ceases to amaze me just how anoraky some audiophiles are.

🙋‍♂️THANKS AGAIN PAUL, FOR REMINDING US…THIS IS THE BEST TIME TO BE AN AUDIOPHILE 🤗👍💚💚💚

Favourite client quote from a couple of years ago... "I don't use none of that digital streaming crap. I listen to CDs instead"
Ummmm......

Like Paul said (or as I interpret it) its all about TIME: WHEN is there a 1 or a zero? And at what moment your player is listening to it? The less steps / listeners / senders of one's and zero's the better. So i like vinyl for real careful listening and my Naim CD5 for careful listening.

I was waiting for the word Airlens through the video... received an email today (same time as this video) that PS Audio has the product in their lineup today 😉

Is a quality streamer important if I'm using an external dac?

Streamer clock, got it. Great video!

love from pak !
my is why horn loud spaekers so expensive what makes them so costly
and if those can only handle high frequency then whats hi fi about it and where are the lows!>?

Like some have commented here, Qobuz is my preferred streaming service, sounds much better than Tidal and Apple Music. I’ve just finished a trial period for Apple Music and even with their lossless and special audio, Qobuz still sounds superior. Although I do use a music app called ‘KaiserTone’ for iPhone, and play downloaded high-rez, and that is another step up. Differences are not vast but certainly noticeable (imo).

When you hear a track on a streaming service that you happen to own that CD it’s from, you don’t know that it’s the same master that you have, regardless of anything else.

I find Tidal MQA sounds obviously cleaner and more spacious than Quobuz or ripped CD on a streamer optimized system.

IMHO, the quality difference is the bit rate the stream is coming at. Higher bandwidth, better sound. this is most obvious when comparing 15MBP (max) from netflix vs 30 MBP from AppleTv. the ladder is significantly better video quality but they are both marketed as 4K video.

Tidal is the one doing the funny stuff (compression).

Kibbles and Bits not Quibbles and Bits. Streaming music is a mystery for me but I enjoy it for convenience. Big Time! Technology is a good thing 💯👍🎶

The difference between Tidal and Qobuz is simply due the built in music player. If you download the same song from Qobuz and Tidal listen to it locally with the same music program, no difference!

Did that he tested hq streaming vs CD on the $100k system? I go for physical media for critical listening. I stream while on the move or work

cd sounds better, and will always do, period! if you have a good transport - dac nothing can match it. digital services will always serve you compressed audio, no matter what they say... is that difference big? depends... in real life hifi systems yes it is. A cheap streamer will always sound worse than the same category cd player. at hiend audio the gap is narrower but in my experience it never betters the transport - dac combination.

My thoughts it's psychological to be honest

Nice video and explanation.

I did use to work for one of the bigger streaming services, so I might be biased, but:

Even if you do hear a difference.. is it for the better or the worse?

I miss Tidal daily music recommendations but still happy I switched to Qobuz. Hey Qobuz, please come up with daily recommendations instead of making us wait until Fridays. Also invest in more advanced recommendation software like Tidal.

Paul, . . i'm sorry but no bits are not just bits its much more complicated than that. for example take two or more decoding pieces of software even that process the same piece of music they will each sound different. and that's just the digital side not taking in count the analog processing side. same goes for the chip sets in DAC's. sorry Paul have to disagree with you here.

When saying Tidal and Qobuz sound different. Am I understanding it correctly that Qobuz is the better-sounding one?

Most here haven't heard that Tidal is converting to FLAC. People doing comparisons say it is indistinguishable from Qobuz. There is still a lot of MQA (which I don't mind) but it's gradually being replaced. I have both and still prefer the interface on Tidal and the extra features. Plus they pay artists better.

You state, or at least imply, that noise is not an issue until a clock is introduced. I've set up many systems and the noise can come from the network itself and can also be generated by data switches, etc. I've had issues over time with several very expensive automation systems as well. A little bit of noise doesn't affect a Word document, nor does jitter. Both affect digital sound quality.

I love Quboz, i felt it had the best presentation/sound quality..but for simple streaming from a transport Tidal Connect is easier to deal with. When Quboz comes out with a similar "Qoboz Connect" I'll switch back.

I had the chance to identify some differences between Tidal and Apple Music lossless before Tidal stopped doing business in Turkey. Apple Lossless was significantly more dynamic, open, livelier sounding than Tidal. Don’t know the reason may be because of MQA) No chance comparing to Qubuz since it’s not servicing in Turkey. I then compared Apple Music (from Mac mini and a simple USB audio interface) with Music Hall cd player (used as cd transport) and found out; for the most of the time they sounded exactly the same. I couldn’t detect any difference. Very slight differences in hi-res recorded classical music. (Only a few cd’s sounded different, more leveled up and compressed, nothing I can do) Some new recordings are so leveled up, compressed and clipping (such as Adele) that I prefer leveling down 0.5db to 1db so that I can feel some breathing when streaming thanks to that software. Then I connected a quality DDC ( Audio gd - 20 he) to Mac mini, the sound from Apple Music or any kind of file based music surpassed the cd transport, in a way that suddenly this source got into another level that you’d never look behind. It’s mainly blacker background, more identifiable sound stage, more air, space between instruments but there is more. Now I can really appreciate a very well recorded engineered hi-res music as well. Now I’m more “in the music” can’t find better description. Then I connected my cd transport to that DDC also, yes with positive results but there is more to appreciate sound wise in streaming Apple Music and ripped off CD’s .

How does room temperature affect the sound. That PV/T thing

Hard wired fiber optic is superior.

I think sound is a lot like colour. I never know if we all are seeing and hearing exactly the same thing exactly the same way. What I do appreciate is your honest and sincere opinions and observations. Take them or leave them, away better for them. Tks

Great topic Paul. Streaming has my concerns in that the file you receive may have been altered. Equalized, sped up, volume changed etc. I have more confidence in a production CD because at least you know it came from a controlled pressing from a proper mastering.

Well, I'm just a pedestrian with relatively low end equipment. I can't hear the difference between Qobuz and Tidal (at 16/24 bit 44kHz) on my Klipsch RP400s connected to the PC. Neither can I detect the difference on my Snell speakers played through a Yamaha A8A AVR. And, I can't tell the difference, at those resolutions using a Denon Class A amp through a Cambridge Audio 851N player to Infinity Column II speakers. I can barely tell a difference at 24 bit 192 kHz on the Klipsch desk top speakers. I can definitely tell the difference at 24 bit/192kHz with the 851N connected to the Denon amp sent to the Infinitys.
I wonder if there may be a misunderstanding between the two services. Tidal used to list the music only as high resolution, but 24 bit was the only constant; they didn't distinguish between 44 kHz, 88 kHz, 96 kHz, 176 kHz, and 192 kHz. Could this account for some of the difference?

Is Pandora a very good source for clean quality playback?

Ripping a CD on my PC in wav format then burning that ripped album back onto a decent quality blank CD,there IS a difference. The copy lacks impact and if anything sounds just different?????

Can the stream be higher quality vs CD? I mean ripping and format vs stream...?? What is the highest format for either?

Interested in your comments about 2 things: 1. Just because a service says they "stream" hi-res, they are not saying what they are doing with the music before the stream, right? 2. All this talk about DACs in the streamer...don't most streamers just send the data straight through to the AVR (if that's what you are using) and it's the AVR that uses the DAC? Like with the WiiM streamer connected via Toslink?

I'm so confused.

The standards for mastering for streaming services is different than those for mastering for compact disc pressings which is different than those for mastering for vinyl. This is surely the reason for the difference.

I tried them both and I like tidal better on my system

I find digital music is as good as CD if not better.

I did a trial of both Tidal and Qobuz and landed with Qobuz about 3 years ago. There was clearly a difference.
I enjoy it but still my analogue blows it away

Thanks Paul fir this information

2023

When it comes to Qobuz vs Tidal sound quality, both platforms will give you the FLAC lossless audio format, but only Tidal offers the Hi-Res FLAC format and MQA streaming option. Both of these music streaming services will deliver the sound quality that all you audiophiles seek.

As always, very objective and guiding. Thank you Paul!

Lol ppl in the comment R hilarious! you buy A CD for every song u wanna hear? yah right La La Land

Bits are not bits. It‘s all analog technique. Read and write are analog electronic processes. Memory are digital from a high-level perspective but in micro-view it‘s analog storage technology. It is a fact that you can copy files from SSD to other SSD to MVRAM to whatever and suddenly, after just 3 copies and 1-2 years aging on a digital system of highest market quality you can‘t read that file anymore, just like that, even though it‘s presented on the list „is right there“. Read-error - done, lost.
Adding Load-Balancers, Servers, networks, gateways, routers, switches and transport issues of the anyway further emptied file to a lossy compression with a still hi-res sold air-filled stream of remastered compressed and loudness hacked files will not improve this.
And yes, your music can get lost on cassette, tape, vinyl, too and some of it‘s degradation can be experienced
The throtteling for data management of the streaming networks, the Geo-fencing of licenses, the cheaper network procuring via cost-free tier-3 peering vs. Costly tier-1 internet transport, additional security systems throttling the service, all that helps not to improve sound on streaming.
Thus a solid static original medium is preferable, SACD, CD, Vinyl, Tape. I do not listen to streaming aside from a quick song-check of a snippet of a song to understand what kind of music is presented or offered.