Is Bayle FromSoftware's Best Dragon?

Kalameet from DS was a pretty amazing fight, considering the back story. But Bayle and Plasidusax are a whole nother beast.

With igon? The best. No igon? It lags behind Midir in quality

I hate Midir but I really liked Bayle. Sinh is still my favourite dragon fight though.

My issue with Midir is a matter of gameplay. In essence, he's closer to a gimmick boss than a real one with his head being his only realistic weak point. I don't like that, I like having various strategies based on positioning. If you like his gimmick, it's fine, if you don't, well fuck you cause he's also one of the two hardest boss in the entire game. Midir felt like they sacrificed gameplay on the altar of spectacle which is a criticism I've laid at From's feet quite a few time since then, it's gotten worse in this DLC with the last boss being the most egregious example yet in a From game. It's too bad cause Sekiro managed to do both gameplay and spectacle to quasi-perfection.

Bayle however, is a boss that integrated said lessons well. He was much more fun because I could face him, I could try to run around him, I could let someone else draw attention as the summon is baked into the fight (you could summon for Midir but honestly it just made him harder and more unpredictable), I could try to dodge toward and below him, I felt like I was fighting the way I want to fight rather than having the game telling me "no, you're playing it wrong".

My only criticism of Bayle is that he's maybe a bit on the easy side? The game gave me a dragon slaying weapon just before entering his area and even though I'm on NG+7 I killed Bayle second try with that new weapon even though my only experience with it was killing the previous dragons on the way up. But honestly I don't mind, next time I'll just use my favourite weapon instead of the shiny new toy, in fact I'm glad they give you an option for people who struggle.

Not even close. Bayle is Midir but worse - very similar moveset but worse hitboxes, camera, and visual clutter all over the arena.

Personally, as much as I loved Bayle in ER, I think Midir is still Fromsoft's best dragon.

I realise I'm in a tiny minority but I honestly think Sinh from DS2 is the best dragon.

Igon made this fight legendary. You can't think of Bayle without hearing "Curse you Bayleeee" in your head 🗣

I find fighting while locked on to Midir's head extremely easy and natural, I'm surprised you don't enjoy it. He is still (at this moment) my favorite Fromsoft dragon boss, simply because of how engaging his fight is. There's no need to smack him in the ankles, his head is always present and there for you to take advantage of. With more practice against Bayle in the future I could see him rising, but for now he takes a close second. He has just a few too many massive AOE's that leave me feeling unsafe challenging him head on, but as I learn to deal with those I may find less of an issue with them down the road.

I can appreciate that at least you admit that your struggle with free-aiming is a skill issue. Camera management is one of the most important mechanics that separate good players from great players, and learning when to lock on vs when to free-aim is extremely important in both pvp and pve challenge settings. Would a perfect lock on camera that always framed the target be nice? Yes. Is it practical from a coding perspective? I highly doubt it. But we can hope that some improvements do come down the road.

The lock on in Midirs fight is so jank, it always fails.

Baylee’s lock on only fails when he’s doing his phase transition.

I really like bonking the head of these bosses. So midir is best IMHO as its more prominent there. Yes i play Monster Hunter.

its definitely Midir, like its not even close. the fight truly is the closest you can feel to fighting an actual dragon
that said Bayle is sick and Igon obviously gives it bonus points making for a fantastic fight (it also has a metric fuckton of recency bias which you have to take into account)

Bayle's snappy camera just makes me nauseous :(

yeah he definitely is. Fromsoft never had a perfect dragon boss before but I think this is it, his only issues are the camera being bad when against the wall and the lock on sometimes breaking during the phase 2 opening attack.

Black Dragon Kalameet, was not mentioned... My displeasure will be known!

Sinh is the best dragon and I'm tired of pretending it's not

I don't see how anyone can seriously consider the problem with free-aim a "skill issue" when it's entirely a problem of ergonomics and controller design. Trying to dexterously do jumps, rolls, sprints, all while constantly adjusting the camera isn't even possible with a proper control scheme. "Claw grip" is a workaround that indicates a glaring problem with its controls. The fact that people have to resort to playing finger-twister to play the game is a mark against the game, and people shouldn't have to buy overpriced "elite" controllers just to have extra buttons on the back so they can actually dodge and use the camera at the same time.

A lot of this could be solved if From would just have the camera dynamically ZOOM OUT when locked on to large enemies. I'm tired of having to guess what an enemy is doing because I can't see what's going on.

The camera really ruined Bayle for me

Midir is still my favorite simply because whilst Placidusax and Bayle are amazing bosses (Bayle is my favorite dlc boss) Midir is actually a dragon. The others are so mangled beyond belief that they are kind of slugs more than anything. I’ve always hated blob shaped bosses and both placi and Bayle are very much similar to the latter than the former, I.e. an actual dragon.

I don’t understand how Sekiro learned the art of camera zoom out yet ER does not. So many bosses would be better if the camera was just more versatile.

They brought back Dark Souls 1 lava AS A BOSS

For me Bayle was beaten the 6th try, and he wasn't hard
But Darkeater Midir was beaten after over 150 tries
He was the hardest boss i ever fought on the gaming history 😅

How is ur game not lagging wtf

does not beat out midir, but close

Midir all day, honestly in my opinion it's not even a question...

Midir is still my favorite, and frankly I like Placidusax more. But yeah, it’s a hype af boss fight.

Putting Placidusax next to Midir and Bayle is blasphemy
Bro is not on the team

Fighting Bayle genuinely fear me, big ass dragon with scary face, and buffed too, but my fear was gone when i summon Igon
CURSE YOU BAYLEEEEEEEEEE

BAAAAAYLE! CURSE YOUUU BAAAAAAYLE!

Was never a fan of the dragon boss fights. Somehow Bayle is my favorite fromsoft boss fight of all time. I actually enjoyed dying in the last moments of the fight several times trying to summon igon just so I could experience it again and again

idk if missing fortisax here was on purpose...
Anyway shame you didn't put in here kalameet and Sinh..

I could be wrong, but I image there is some middle ground they could zoom out so that the fight is more readable, and you can appreciate more of the visuals, while still being close enough to maintain scale

CUUUUUUURSEEEEE YOU BAYLEEEE

Easily the best dragon From has ever made. Sinh is a close second tho

Camera tracking is probably the bighest issue FromSoft needs to fix. A lot of times, I don't even see the boss, I just react to the camera moving as a potential telegraph. The prime example of this being the Dancing Lion fight.

Also, I absolutely LOVE Bayle. He's my favourite boss in FromSoft's already impressive catalogue of bosses(haven't played bloodborne). But when I was trying to learn him in the initial 20 or so rums, I found the he just kept pinning me against the wall with no space to counter or dodge. Even the Dancing Lion is guilty of this. Though now, I can bait out attacks to get him back to the center, those first few runs were NOT fun

OG kalameet is my personal favorite even if he wasn't in the video discussion. As cool as the massive, beast like dragons are I would like Fromsoft to revisit the smaller agile dragons like kalameet again.

honorable mention, Kalameet from Artorias of the Abyss Dlc

i still prefer midir but maybe just because i did it so often its like meditation to me

Midir is still my favourite, I agree with a lot on what you said with Placidusaxx which is why Bayle is generally a better fight than him, because it’s similar to Midir’s aggression. But Midir’s fear factor is what does it for me, I’m genuinely scared to face him and unlike mostly every other Souls boss I’ve only ever beaten Midir once. Even though he’s probably easy by comparisson to most Elden Ring bosses, like Pontiff Sulyvahn and Ludwig I find him psychologically tough because of the fear factor.

"technical ingenuity"🥱 intentional shitboxes, atrocious camera, so ingenious😮

Midir’s epic phase 2 move is him doing his 10 second long combo twice that leads to you chasing him around the arena for 20 seconds

Bayle has a better leadup with the Jagged Peak, lore with Placidusax and the Dragon Communion, and quest narrative with Igon, and his fight’s pacing is far more consistent and exhilirating

It’s not even close.

What I find interesting is how most bosses in Elden Ring+dlc at close to their prime, with two major exceptions being both the big dragon fights. They are both rotting corpses of what they used to be and they are still insanely powerful. Goes to show how strong a dragon can be

There was a sign on the ground that said to use scarlet rot.
So I whipped out the flower, thank God I am a Faith build.

I like to think midir is a predecessor to what bayle now. Consider it kinda of beta version what bayle could've been. The context of their fights are similar, injured dragon that was hiding underneath mountain to recover, just for us to interrupt their slumbers. Both of them were wounded so the couldn't just fly away. They fought like a cornered animal because that it's last resort for survival. Of course bayle was more cinematic because he has a questline beforehand while midir is just happened to be secret optional boss. Bayle would be probably my favorite if his second phase didn't drop my fps that much 🤣 lmao

Functionally Midir is still the best dragon boss fight. In terms of presentation and themes Bayle takes the cake.

The only problem with the bayle fight is that once you fail to dodge his first move, he completely covers you and attacks you causing the camera to go haywire.

I didn't face this problem with placidusax so his fight was much more better. So placidusax's fight was much better fight simply because i didn't need to fight with my camera even after i get hit.

Another big issue with the camera in Bayle's fight, is that for some reason, you can only lock on to his head, whereas you can lock on to the legs and body of all the other dragons. It's impossible to fight Bayle using lock on when you are very close to him, because his head will be directly above you or even behind you, making the camera to go all over the place. This should be such an easy thing for FromSoftware to fix, and I'm baffled it hasn't been done so yet.

You can lock on to midir completely fine IDK what went wrong though that you felt that you had to unlock

guys, what are we discussing about? obviously ancient wyvern is the best lol

CUUUUUUUUURSE YOU, BAYLE!!!!

Great video! Can you do an analysis of Rellana?

Let me preach to you the gospel of liking both Elden Ring and Dark Souls 3. It is possible. I'm doing it right now! <3