THIS is What's Wrong with Audiophiles & High End Audio Today

I'm gonna go with very good affordable gear is plenty.

❤

Only thing with that outlay, is make sure you get it right for you, otherwise it's an expensive blunder . More affordable gear you do get a second chance .
It's human nature to say i love my set up, but deep down you don't.

e5000 video?🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲

I 100% agree, however all the time I have been watching this video I have been desperate for you to review that stunning Aris amp.

Hifi gear is like spanakopita:
you don't have to spend a lot for it to be really tasty

One has to cut one's cloth. Fortunately musical enjoyment is available at many price points. I agree that expensive does not always mean better sound. It's unusual not to see some super elaborate and expensive turntable on display in your setup 😮
Cheers from Wales

You don't have enough for a Rolex because your into HI-End HIFI 😄ask me how I know. 😁 Its true what you say, I've worked my way up the HIFI component ladder for over 30 years and there is a substantial difference from decent to higher end gear. Yes, some gear is over priced for what you get and other gear is undervalued as well. Case in point: I had upgraded a Chord Cutest DAC to a Holo May KTE. The performance upgrade was substantial for the cost. (Holo May is undervalued) I had that May DAC for two years before upgrading my speakers. I didn't hear much improvement in my speakers until I updated to a Bartok Apex DAC and was blown away. I think some consumers make the mistake of not balancing their system. You cant expect a plus $15,000 DAC to be a substantial improvement paired with $8,000 speakers. Synergy is key in HIFI audio IMO. Everybody is different in taste and what they want/like and that's what makes the world go round.

A Ferrari goes like a demon, the high end rooms at Pacific Audio Fest 2024 were a major disappointment. The best sounding rooms were the most modestly priced.

Perfectly on point and it’s enough to walk in a Margolis room at a show to hear how much performance for “little” money can be had when a system is properly engineered. Still true high end or ultra hi end when properly implemented is something else.
Eager to hear your opinion on these two new beautiful pieces.

NICE HOBBY !!! ENJOY !!!

There is a lot of room to squeeze out performance in the 'source' equipment if you are willing to get into building ultracapacitor based custom RPI solutions using Ian Canada parts and using Diretta with Gentooplayer. Time and time again the perception of what my speakers could do was blown away once I realized a lot of performance comes down to what your feeding your gear with and the quality of the data. Granted, it would sound even better with Magicos but point is, you can squeeze out everything from your current gear and have fun doing without breaking the bank. Yes, you'll spend a few thousand but not $20K.

Well said.
I've been saying this kind of stuff on forums for years.

First of all, there is no such thing as "the law of diminishing returns" in audio, other than what each person sets for themselves. I think the problem here is, that people tend to think that by spending $10K on an audio product, should yield them twice the performance of a $5K product.

All things being equal, the $10K product will sound better than a $5K product, but it is up to each individual person to judge whether the difference is worth it to them. If it isn't, then they reached there own personal point of diminishing returns.

Case in point. I know someone with a pretty extreme high end system (Von Schweikert Ultra 55, Pass Labs, DCS digital, Kronos TT, etc). He recently upgraded his Pass Labs with CH Precision electronics for for a lot more money. What did he get for his quite drastic expenditure? A slightly bigger soundstage, better articulated bass, and a bit better decay.

The system sounded phenomenal before the upgrade, slightly better after. For him, the 5 figure upgrade did not yet pass his personal point of diminishing returns.

And to bring the point home even more. For everyone of you who owns a very good moderately priced system, who thinks that extreme high end gear is "more money than sense", there are millions of people that think even your moderate system is more money than sense. They are perfectly happy with their smart phones and $30 ear buds, and think all of you have passed the point of diminishing returns.

I also often hear, most of these people are buying this expensive gear to show off. To me, this doesn't make too much sense. For the most part, the number of people who will see or hear their system is maybe a dozen people per year. Not much in the way of bragging rights there. Not to mention, that unless those people are also audiophiles, most will think the system owner is kind of crazy to spend that much on audio.

However, the same person leaves their home in Beverly Hills, and drives their Ferrari the 10 miles to Santa Monica, and thousands of people see their car. And no one will think they are crazy, many will be drooling with jealousy. Hell, even an expensive watch will be seen by more people in a day, than will most likely see the guy's system all year. Now, that is owning stuff to show off.

just ignore the comments, most are not worth it

I agree with everything except the Accord vs BMW. You must of had a regular 5 series that was an “M- Sport”. Couldn’t have been an actual M car. 😂

I get what you’re saying ..but I think people who say “it’s not worth it “..generally don’t have their systems set up to show actually how good their stuff actually is..or could be with better pieces .
Btw,I’m a Patek Philippe ⌚️man myself 🤣

You may want to check the price on Helene DAC. It retails for $19,000 not $30,000. The Kassandra Reference II is $30,000.

You have nice gear, wow

I buy broken Vintage gear that was once expensive, repair and restore it. Sounds just as good as todays modern stuff.

In recent decades, I have seen a newer version of Audio Snob become prevalent. He-She is what I like to call the "Audio-Technocrat". A budget conscience presence that extols the virtue of getting the best sound for the least amount of money. They often are not interested in real life auditioning, instead their information is often second hand from their social and media circles of like-minded echo chambers. Often wrapping themselves in a spec sheet that proves no measurable difference between expensive and the budget components they laud, they cling to the doctrine there are no audible differences in well-engineered components. So, rather than talk about what they heard from the piece in question. They cite those or some double-blind study about the Audiophile community's listening habits, usually something that you never heard of or find. Leaving you unable to examine the how it was conducted, or its controls, yet they will quote you its findings as if its empirical fact. Uhm it is a study, not a measurement.
Have had many debates over the years with such folks, when your arguments start to shed light on their misperceptions, your points are not countered with a logical response that supports their point of view, but quickly devolve into insults. accusations of being a shrill, personal attacks on your knowledge and experience. I consider them to be another toxic element of the hobby, worse and more elitist than the Snob that won't engage with you unless you drop $50K on a system comprised of brand X.
Please do not get me wrong, there is nothing I like more than gaining knowledge on a big bang for the buck component. Ditto: I see no fault in someone hearing and appreciating the difference of a $35K integrated over a $350.00 one either. I feel if you can afford it, knock yourself out and enjoy.
I often find in this hobby people take themselves way too seriously. Oblivious to that the time when we have to leave this mortal coil fast approaches. When it comes, none of us will be able to take our toys and money with us. Sorry, there will be no gold star for how many toys you collected or the how large your bank account was at the time of your passing.
So, speaking for myself I do not want to spend my days obsessing about not having gotten something cheaper that is just as good as the component/speaker I settled on. When I come home for the day, I want to experience playback out of that one piece of equipment I enjoy the hell out of. I do not want to spend my valuable evenings fretting over that I missed out on some better performing more cost conscience option that I should have bought instead. What a sad way to torture oneself.

I definitely agree with most of this.

But I can also tell you that if you tell someone that an audio setup is super expensive, when really it’s not, the person is going to think that the experience sounds a lot better than it really does. It’s psychological.

What music is used to evaluate gear? Sorry, likely spelled out before in another post by you.

My JF Reynaud Cantibile loudspeakers are too expensive new at 5k.....second hand 800. My solution. However turntable upgrades are always with new gear.

I'm on your side, 98% 😊 extrem quality and highest components cost a lot of money, as I know many Highend DIY project as well! Also own expensive Preamp and Amp and have been an great upgrade to my mid-level speakers! What many of us underestimate extremely, if you have tremendeous good electronic, they will put ANY speaker to the next level! I do see so many people spending a lot on speakers and little on electronic, I do exactly the opposite! Speakers in the 15-20k are for me many times equal to 50-80k, just a matter of really good electronic match + personal flavo)!! Aries Cerat I dont like, because all if their equipment is way oversized and doesnt fit any average living room, no go for me 😊 The challenge in the higher range of Highend/Ultra-Highend, so many are just blending and argumenting with their unique, long-researched product. THIS IS NOT CORRECT for tube amp designs, ALL OF THEM are very old ones! look at Kondo, AN or Audio Research!! Similar happens in speaker designs, nothing new just crazy materials, we all know the "egg" is the perfect design, but knowone would buy it.

M, I don't need a Mojo, but I'm getting one. Got all my new cables needed already to go. Just need $650 to click (purchase); It's a month away. Best, D.

It's a hobby! You have the right to pursue it any way you want. Make choices out of excitement, sure. Have fun. We've all made bad choices. It's part of the experience.

Very well said. Fully agree. People spend $$ on what they like. Let them be. I am into watches & hifi & when i tell people how much i spend on an Omega watch, ordinary folks would go nuts. Same goes for hifi. And like what u said in the video, these are also the same people who spend alot on cars, designer clothes etc. So buy whatever that catches your fancy or floats your boat.

I am much newer to the hobby but feel you missed a category... the measurement guys. If they can't measure a difference between two amps then they argue why pay triple or more for one of them? They would add that tube amps distort the sound and if you like that, go for it, but to get accurate low distortion sound to the speaker does not take a $10k amp. One other point from that group is sighted bias. You see it is a very expensive amp so your brain tells you it sounds better, even though it doesn't. Thus group contains some very knowledgeable audiophiles and some wealthy ones too. I think they make some compelling arguments, particularly when it comes to amps and cables. What do you think?

There is a law of diminishing returns, the problem is that people use it to claim other people are stupid for spending more but that is not what that is about. In a way when you take top end stuff, be it a car, hifi gear, computing equipment, etc. some pricing of it will be influenced by the fact that fewer people will be buying the product, therefore more money has to be requested if the OEM is going to be able to reinvest in the business again, meaning that are not linear to the actual product performance. The thing though that a lot of people often not realize is that the very affordable stuff wouldn't be that affordable if there wasn't heavy R&D that is done for producing the expensive products. It's like in cars where the "used car buyers" end up thinking those who buy cars new are dumb, completely overlooking the fact that there can be no "used car" without it having been new at first. Let alone the fact that different products have different meaning to different people and our financial standing often dictate most of our tastes.

It’s a fun hobby I’ve never looked at it in any other way ,I have an office system consisting of beautiful vintage Pioneer SX-5590 receiver , TeKton lore speaker’s a music server and Denifrips Venus 12th anniversary dac I listen to at least twice as much as my main system that’s many times the cost. I enjoy both my systems equally the dac costs more then both receiver and speakers combined. There’s a spectacular synergy going on with this vintage receiver and this particular TeKton speaker model that is uncanny.

There are a lot of parts to this video. First of all, we all vote with our wallets. We want what we want for reasons of performance or exclusivity or a combination of the two. The performance may be measurable or it just may be perceived, but if it makes you happy, who cares???

However, the law of diminishing returns is a real economic concept. The idea is simple as applied to audio: at some point you will be spending increasing amounts of money for smaller performance gains. But there is no clear point at which this law kicks in and the law says nothing about whether those small gains are important to you. And the law certainly does not mean that any product is too expensive. In short, I see little real world application for the law of diminishing returns to audio or most other purchases. Trying to use the law of diminishing returns to any purchase decision, IMHO, is just a mis-application of the law and shows a lack of understanding of what it does and does not mean.

Your audiophile temperament for me is spot on. Love your enthusiasm to the hobby. No one will tell the truth but I can convey it through your emotions. Loving what you do. Thank you

Das Beispiel mit der Timex und einer Rolex ist ein gutes Beispiel. Die Timex zeigt die Zeit genauso gut an wie einer Rolex.. Der Preisunterschied liegt mehr in der feinmechanischen Handwerkskunst und den Status, den die Marke vermittelt. 
Bei unserem Hobby geht es doch primär um die Musik und sekundär um die Geräte mit denen wir diese abspielen. Ich bin seit mehr als 50 Jahren ein HiFi Freak und auch ein bißchen Crazy ( Bluna) . Allerdings betrachte ich speziell die Preisentwicklung im High End Bereich mit Skepsis,…denn sie scheint nur noch für Oligarchen und Multimillionäre bezahlbar zu sein. Außerdem glaube ich, dass der Hörraum an sich einen viel größeren Einfluß auf das Klangerlebnis hat als die Unterschiede zwischen den Komponenten. Es ist auch für Otto Normalbürger möglich für relativ wenig Geld eine hervorragende Musikwiedergabe zu erzielen. Wer für die 2-3% Klangunterschied bereit ist und die finanzielle Freiheit hat das Hundertfache zu bezahlen,…dem bin ich in keiner Weise neidisch. Ich bezweifle aber, dass jemand der bereit ist sehr viel Geld in eine Musikanlage zu investieren,…damit wirklich glücklich wird, weil der Schwerpunkt nicht mehr die Musik an sich ist, sondern der Status der Gerätschaften.

I agree with your comments and by the way Aries Cerat is a killer !!! Hope one day you can review their DAC

I see you have the AC Helene in the background there. Nice. I’m curious to see how you like it. Some advice, but perhaps you already know this: Like the Antipodes, leave the Helene powered on. It will sound really good after a day. It will sound magical after being powered on for 3 days. A high quality USB cable between the Antipodes and Helene is the best option, I found. Lastly, the Helene will benefit being placed on a Wellfloat platform.

There is not absolut Truth in anything only relative.
I assume you live in greece and I don't know you income but i see that net average wage in greece is around 900-1000 euro a month not including other bill we have to pay like electricity,food, health, house rental, car fuel ,maintenance and car licence and insurance and many other bills ,in this case it is not sensible to buy such expansive devices ,matter of priorities in life!
But if you income is much more than avarege than yes ,
Beside most of the recording are far less than state of the art recordings (mediocre recordigs) so the best you can get is the recording quality no matter the quality of devices,what some people say " junk in junk out" . Everybody calculate what he can afford and what not , that's life, priorities choices.🎉

Relative ive heard 300k systems and they were amazing, not jealous though just different priorities, i agree with you. Buying a expensive sports car doesn't make you a better driver on or off the track

I was about to leave a comment that there are two more main categories of people that are into Hi-Fi, but you mentioned the first at the end of the video: The ones that CANNOT hear the difference. I had quite a few A/B tests in the past, for example tube rolling, and while there were huge differences in sound that everyone could commend on and agree, there was always someone that couldn't hear a difference (as I couldn't spot a difference changing cables at the studio once for example, while my friend could).
The other category are the ones that say "piece of gear X costs only 1,5k but measures so much better than anything else, therefore you are a fool to buy anything more expensive". I mean if it works for you buy it and enjoy it. I bet it does have it's place in a studio environment, but when music playback and enjoyment comes into place, that's not what I'm after. Most of my friends are musicians, I've played in bands, I have a semi-pro recording studio in my basement and tons of equipment. I know what goes on in making, recording, processing, mixing and mastering music. I wouldn't ever choose that gear for my living room.
There's more smaller hi-fi enthusiasts groups though, for example the vintage gear geeks. Here in Greece the "Multichannel Mob" is very prevalent. They believe that you need at least 7 active studio monitors, 4 sub-woofers and immersive up-scaling AV receivers to properly listen to music! And they try to force their beliefs to everyone else, and the ones that don't have such systems do not know what they are talking about according to them.
NO! I own a multichannel system, and while I enjoy it in some cases, I prefer to listen to music in 2 channels. Just some random thoughts...

I’m into this hobby for a long time. My opinion is you don’t have to own expensive gears to enjoy music😊👽✌🏼

I made a video for TAS stating the Law of Diminishing Returns is bull. It generated a lot of discussion. Also on WBF.

I want a ferrari.

This is from a Black man O.G. and music loving audiophile( my full title🤣). I'm blessed that i can hear differences in equipment and interconnects. I have a 44+ year love affair with high end audio, and a longer one with various music genres. All the aspects mentioned, (along with attending live music events) has allowed me to assemble an endgame system that satisfies me. Whenever I visited my audio dealer I didn't desire to trade anything for 11 years. However, I traded my Sota Comet after 30 years, for a pre-owned Sota Sapphire a few months ago and the improvement was amazing,(though the Comet was great and a upgrade from a Technics 1200 mk2). I have $18,000 invested which the "masses" would consider insane. I'm single( wives and girlfriends, including the one I have now interfere with the pursuit of sonic perfection!🤣🤣). I've mentioned these statements on another channel. Yes, if it were up to them they would have me listening to a cheap ass sound bar, or some equally cheesy Bluetooth speakers(yecch!) and earbuds (Nooooo!!). In closing, to all my fellow music loving audiophile brethren, keep the turntables, reels, cd's analog tuners and tapes spinning and playing!!👍👍😄😄 One more thing: tubes and mosfet amps(so tube like!) I have to have them man!

You can enjoy music on anything but, if you're an audiophile, only the best sound will satisfy. I finally purchased an Ayre AX5 after a lifetime of chasing "giant killers" and "punches above it's weight" components; new and vintage. I wish I would have just bought the best, years ago... Ayre may not be "the best" but, it's the best I've heard, even compared to luxman and accuphase which; were my other choices. You only live once...
Oh; and it's made in USA, Colorado.

A Honda Accord is a far better car day to do than a Ferrari. It's not even debatable. On a racetrack though or on a good road the Ferrari is next level enjoyment provided it has been well maintained - which sadly is not the case for most of them.
I find hi-end Hi-fi the same way - wonderful with the best quality / mastered recordings in a purpose-built room.
However, when it comes to most mainstream recordings on an everyday basis the budget systems in a living room are far more enjoyable and easier to live with.

I have a Honda Accord.
And I am not into cars.
But I am in Audio😂😅❤

Keep up the good work. We thank you for the advices.

Best reviewer.

I think the irony is like a lot of things in life, by the time you can afford such things you can't appreciate it. Your hearing range has deteriorated, among other things (!) and even though a teenager may not have a trained ear, they can hear the subtle nuances which expensive gear may or msy not deliver. Shame Benjamin Button wasn't an audiophile.