Why Expats Have ZERO Security in Thailand!

The much talked about tax matter has been blown out of context by so so many vloggers, that aren't thinking straight...it's a NO issue for the majority of expats living in Thailand & all those on a retirement (non working) visa.

Worldwide taxation laws are simple, you pay your taxes to the country that you're earning from & aslong as the individual does & can provide proof, there's nothing to sweat about.

I think that we are just guests in any foreign country, in which we do not have actual citizenship. If a country wants to change their laws, to benefit its citizens, then it has the right, and obligation, to do so. If these changes negatively impact some non-citizens living in the country, then they should consider either becoming a citizen, if possible, or relocating to another country, which they believe is more favorable to their personal situation.

I also think it is prudent for overseas expats & retirees to have a backup plan, in case they do need to relocate, due to factors beyond their control. In my own case, I do not plan to put down permanent roots in any foreign country, unless I have obtained citizenship in that country. Just like any guest should do, I plan to always be prepared to pack my bags & depart, when my hosts feel that I have overstayed my welcome, or if I feel uncomfortable with a change in the living conditions.

As for gaining residency and/or citizenship in Thailand, I have heard of two paths: (1) working in Thailand, as an employee of a Thai company, for a certain number of years; or (2) having ownership in a company, based & operating in Thailand - and, in both cases, paying Thai taxes. For citizenship, I believe that you have to be able to speak, read & write Thai at a relatively high level of proficiency. For more details, and other options, you should speak to a Thai immigration lawyer (not a visa agent).

This is just my opinion, so take it with a ton of salt. I am not an expert on these subjects (nor on many others), so please do your own research before making any decisions! Feel free to ignore & move on! :)

My approach to visa/taxes: pick a few countries in SEA, then move from one place to another. Sure, it's a bit of a pain since you can't have a permanent place (i.e., suitcase living), but that can be dealt with to some degree (like rent long term or buy an inexpensive condo for your 'permanent' place). Land ownership: they've got to do that, otherwise, the Chinese would have bought all their land. Health and insurance: I don't know about you but right now in the States, your copay can easily exceed the total in Thailand. My thing about deciding whether to retire in Thailand or any other place is basically how far can I get with the money I've got. Sure, you can probably get by in certain parts of the States with 3K/mo, but do you really enjoy living there?

No sympathy for farangs being pinged for no helmet. Coming from countries where helmets are compulsory they should know better.

Excellent points and given very little consideration by most until the crap hits the fan. I had been in and out of Thailand for approx 30 years but since Covid hung up my work boots (not willingly) but I do recall the advice of an older American guy I met in Nana Plaza (a place I was besotted with) telling me never buy anything in Thailand you can't put on a plane. I do think this applies to most of us mere mortals but not corporations or multi millionaires. This is probably the closest you can get to being stateless whilst blissfully enjoying it.

Very informative. Thank you.

I know there are many legitimate "phobias" out there. Is there a phobia named for 'the fear of taxation that hasn't even been put into law - and may never be'? What a jittery bunch of expats I see on YT. It is truly embarrassing to read some of the posts that my fellow expats in Thailand make. What do you do with your time when you aren't panicking?

Plan A is always: "sh*t the bed", followed by Plan B: "threaten to leave and take my petty pension with me" (as if that alone will take down Thailand's economy), then lastly, Plan C: "see Plan A."

In the US, I felt like I had few guarantees or things to feel 'secure' about for the last 25 years. That made my move to Thailand easy. Here, I feel plenty secure on all fronts. I don't spend my hours worrying about every GD thing, as that is self inflicted stress over things that are unlikely to ever happen - and that sh*t will age you, fast. 

Why retire somewhere else if all you're going to do is live in fear? Stay home! If something negative happens in the way of requirements, etc, you suck it up and figure it out. You get professional advice. We're grown-ass people. Theoretically we have problem solving skills by now.... don't we?

People p*ss and moan about 20 different visas. Typically, only 1 or 2 will ever apply to your personal situation over time. If you have an IQ over 60, it is not a problem to figure out. And all of the bed wetting over 90-day reporting is overblown. SPEND A FEW BUCKS and use an agent - and get over it, people. It is not that expensive. A hard working Thai person gets paid, and you don't have to worry. Also, and don't screw this up, RENT - don't buy. Why would you ever buy when you can rent for 25-40% of what you rented for back home? Pocket the money, stay financially flexible. Life is not that hard. And it's even easier in Thailand - IF you let it be.

After the recent docos on Australian TV about how badly retirees are being treated here (from physical assault to being ripped off by retirement villages), the old guys trying to drink themselves to death in Pattaya may be on to something.

So non ADA compliant, unjust legal system..., rip off Farang is main goal.

They tax my SIS I'm outa here

Good topic I have been coming to Thailand now over 25 years usually 2 months a year I now have returned to retire maybe have just secured my retirement 1 year OA
I returned immediately after Covid and on the presumption of buying cheap condos I did get cheap, compared to the returning tourist industry influx but over supply of condos now is outrageous

What I’ve noticed in my experience since Covid ended
It seems the thais got used to no tourists and really did it thought during those 2 + years but survived and therefore don’t look at us with the same eye than pre Covid
The changes I’ve observed from previous trips is that ferang has become a frowned apoun and rip off at all costs attitude no more Thai smiles no more foreign respect pre Covid was a time of thais bending over backwards for a buck little bit of bahter here and there smiles everywhere now I feel alien inbthis country I have a Thai partner and I have her with me when shopping where goods prices are not on display I avoid tourist hot spots eat out way Thai stall food and still if my partner is not with me ripped again
I am looking to sell my condos and return to Australia after the years up unless Thai attitude changes back which I highly doubt
prices increase falling exchange rates and all your security issues touched on here
Im a seasoned visitor to this country
I feel to tourist holiday up to 2 months a time could be sufficient in the future
As I plan to buy a sail boat and float around the archipelago visa wandering Tha
E south Aisha
Good subject sir

What about Condos? They are mostly freehold in thailand.

Move to Cambodia and those issues are addressed.

Bottom line: Don’t buy anything in Thailand that you can quickly dispose of, or just get rid of on short notice. I’d never buy a condo there. A scooter might be the only thing I’d consider buying.

They tax you 3 4 5 times on the same money property tax capital gains sales tax state tax corporate tax beer tax cigarette tax

Here 21 yrs and countining. Last 8 on Retirement Visa. So far so good. Things can change but they havn't so far and I feel very secure.

This is an interesting post. First, learning the language and culture will help with some of the issues you have listed. Choosing a place/province that idealizes your former Westerner country...is not as helpful. This is a developing country except for BKK. Adaptation is the key to making your way in the maze of life in Thailand. As visitors, the responsibility will always be ours.. to change... However, many helpful Thais, customs are westerner friendly

By us Thai tax treaty, Thai government does not tax US social security, military, federal government pensions. The mighty US government reserves that privilege for itself. I don’t know about private US pensions. I have read the tax treaty myself. Google Thai us tax treaty irs for details. On health insurance most Thai companies won’t insure people over 70. Fortunately, my US insurance does still cover me In Thailand. The mobility issue for me is a big deal. Tim

The US citizens as long as they pay taxes into the social security system, part of it, is Medicare that will help them at the old age. There is a lifetime of $50,000 for an emergency fund to bring them back to the US and take care of you. Of course, you will need your medicare card and enrolled in the program. Check it out.

Thailand wants your money. Not you.

Its not your country. It never will be. No matter how much you pay.
Its not about money. Its about blood.
If i fly a zulu to japan - Is he japanese?

The Thai system is purposely set up to exploit foreigners. Don't expect that to ever change.

"Expats" isn't a thing in 2024.

Yes, Americans kept them from being invaded by Vietnam during the sixties. Now they don't need us anymore.

It is unreasonable to expect land ownership as a foreigner. We should consider doing similar in the US..... You can easily see how much foreigners ruin this society; if they allowed us to own land we would gobble it all up and they would have nothing.

Do youbwant avoid all these problems, go in another country!

The fact is... there is really no stability pretty much anywhere you go now is there. It's all about managing the circumstances where you are at, with what you've got. There will always be pros and cons-trade-offs etc. What this discussion is really talking about is money. Yep... that's right... Most of us wouldn't really be living in SEA if we had enough money to pick another locale... I'm right... stop and be honest. The fact is... if you don't have enough money to insulate yourself in your home country... then you come to SEA for the cheap living and now have to manage all of the downsides.... That's the reality of this discussion.

I don’t see myself living there full time. It just seems like there maybe too many issues and culture differences to overcome. My plan is to stay a few months at a time here and there.

Your video is whats on prob 99.9% of retirees living heres mind..
Dont forget, lots of changes happen all the time with government and new policies can pop up..
One of the reasons I retired here was after working for soo many years non stop I wanted to live out my senior years worry and hassle free. I in turn give back daily to the local economy as well as my wife.
But it seems all of the possible and implemented changes cause alot of worry and anxiety..
I can not stress this enough.: Rent. Dont buy. And as mentioned dont purchase anything you cant if it happens walk away from.
I think the O visa is gonna disapear down the road (imho) Only an opinion.
Ive been coming here since 1993 and retired here b4 Covid...

Why move there in the first place???. If you choose to live there just remeber you have little rights except to give them your money and accept you will get the tickets and the locals wont.

You knew that from day 1, why live there?!

Check in the blood transfusion fiasco. the red cross is not accepting foreign blood types from older foreigners.

Hey, be realistic. Nowhere on earth has the 100% guarantee. Nothing is forever, while we all have to die sooner or later. Don't the Farangs come to South East Asia knowing no country there is their home country???

You want to vote in Thailand? In the country where in 2023 the winner of a national election didn't win and his party was dissolved by a "court"?

One cannot get resident or citizenship status unless you are working here with work permit and continue working through the entire process 5-10 years and may be denied if not married to a Thai. I’m hopeful that a path to residency may be possible in the future. However, the consensus is the Chinese would flood in if such paths were available. They already have quotas in place so of course we really don’t know why nothing logical takes shape. Until things change we will continue to check in with our parole officer every 90 days.

None of the things you discuss are unique to Thailand, and they are the norm in most of the world. The place is for lifestyle, and is a fraction of the CoL in western countries; that's your 'security'.

LTR Visa is your best option if you want to stay long term and tax Free 😊

Thailand looking out for its thai citizens. Maybe more countries should do the same.

After watching this video new You tube search now " What Country's treat digital nomads / Expats the best ranking list !! "

You can work and then apply for residency and eventually citizenship.

No rights !

I usually fly inside 90 days and float between 4 or 5 countries in SE Asia. I want my income coming from 5 countries, not one. Most of my money is in Japan and my wife and half my relatives are Japanese. I can get a golden or investors visa if I want it and own real estate via a foreign LLC. There are always solutions. They require good partners but I have them in Vietnam, Thailand and Japan. Dont partner with poor locals. A multi millionaire doesnt need to steal 50k from you, he cares more about his reputation and image. So it costs you 50k, If you short sell a stock for 100k and it goes bankrupt, it costs u zero. I did this with EK and AMR Both went bankrupt. $5000 in NVDA 30 years ago is 800k today. Making more money and spending less are two separate issues. It has never been easer to make 6000 or more without a full time job. But it takes effort I have ten years of tertiary education and speak three langages. I have made over 2 million and averaged 7 months a year and under 20 hours a week. I left the rat race 37 years ago when I was 33 years old and moved to Tokyo for 14 years. This world is full of new opportunities, but u have to find them and exploit them.

Great videos like yours convinced me, my GF and other friends to move to Malaysia instead. In our view, Thailand is vastly-overrated, dirty and disorderly. Again, what a great video!

One final point you briefly touched on and that was so called marriage visa. Of course there is no such thing! What you do, is get permission to extend your 12 month Non-O or Non-OA on the basis of marriage. It is not a marriage visa.

There was a case a few years ago in the Bangkok Post where an 80 year old Canadian guy had lost his Thai wife of 30 years to cancer. When he went to renew his visa, he was told it wasn’t possible as he was no longer married. With no family or home in Canada, and sufficient funds to stay as a single man in Thailand, he wrote to the Bangkok Post asking for help.

A great video which perfectly summarises the situation for people looking to make it their final home.

Many people have rightly explained that you would be either reckless or plain crazy to totally sever links in your home country. This idea of sell up and emigrate to Thailand is nothing like doing the same and moving to say Australia or Canada.

On this issue of taxation. I really think this will turn out to be a non-event for the majority of expats. Most of the expats come from countries with DTA (Double Tax Agreements) with Thailand. This essentially means that if you can show you have paid tax on your income in your own country then you are not taxed again. The only issue seems to be relating to those whose pensions are below the tax free threshold in their home country, but above the tax free threshold in Thailand. It is likely they will need to pay some tax in Thailand. That however is not the only issue. Simply gaining a Thai tax number and filing a Thai tax return will be another money grab for authorities to demand more documents you don’t easily have, or pay a little to “oil the machine”!

Weird that non citizens of a country don’t feel settled and secured

We all knew that ... Vietnam is more suitable .

Agree with everything you say.......many problems in Thailand..
Definitely no security.