My Honest Opinion on Brian Herbert's Expanded Dune Books

I think AI could have written better books than Brian herbert.

I listened to the 80 plus hours of all the frank herbert books, wonderful journey. I tried to listen to the 1st Brian herbert book....felt like an empty fraud I wanted nothing to do with.

This is why I only collected Hunters and Sandworms of Dune. I also bought Road to Dune but that's not really a novel. I think that Frank didn't have a chance to refine his notes and so a lot of incorrect stuff got into the extended series that he would've revised. I just felt like finishing off the original series.

I am coming to this video 4 years late. But I agree with your analysis. My experience was the same. They are not awful, but I don't personally consider them canoin due to many of the discrepancies you describe. The writing is not horrible, but it's not to the level of Frank Herbert. It's more like reading a really good episode of star trek. There were definitely some highlights (Murbella confronting that obnoxious honored Matre was completely in character, and pretty fun to read). But much of it was terrible (Khrone's character reads like a supervillain invented by a 10 year old).

Much of the hate from purists comes from Brian Herbert trying to bury the Dune encyclopedia. That pissed off a LOT of fans, including me. He wanted everyone to recognize his version as "official" and was annoyed that people still reference it. He's the main reason it has never been reprinted. IMO it is more legit than his works, since Frank actually approved that product himself. And the writing in it was a lot more like Frank's writing than Brian's is.

Does anyone know anything that ranks on par with dune or Herbert’s writing? Three body problem just didn’t do it for me and I can’t find anything as good Herbert 😢

Great video! I also really love Frank Herbert. I read every fictional story he wrote, and within a few, there are little traces of Frank writing about robotics, hive minds, and immortality, that tell me he WAS TRYING to find a way to write the past. The formation of the Sisterhood, the Butlerian Jihad, of course, and how the Atreides and Harkonnen roles helped shape their world.
I appreciate what Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson are trying to do. But it simply does not read like a Frank Herbert book. There is always mystery, subtlety, and often misdirection to Frank's best works. Frank shoots you out of a cannon, before asking if you know how to swim. Panic and confusion, honestly just a full range of normal reactions to wild ideas are part of his genius.
Brain and Kevin deliver what truly FEELS like the information Frank would have wanted to share, but they aren't able to deliver the style and the machinations that Frank Herbert was, and the insane style and amazing content combination is what Dune has always been for me. I'm grateful for knowing about Holtzman, Norma, and Serena, but the storytelling just isn't there! Thanks, Q!!

Another reason for the Prohibition of the Jihad which the quote you cite directly states is that machines allow action without or faster than thought, which is 'inhuman' and inherently dangerous.

The major complaint I have with the pseudo-Dune books is that their style is (necessarily) different, much less pithy and much more everyday, than those by Frank Herbert. The savoriness of the text is a major attraction of the Originals.

I can offer one anecdote in all this. Darrell Schweitzer, a long-time editor in the field, while on a panel at a science fiction convention I attended, reminisced about being on a panel with Brian Herbert. If nothing else, Schweitzer concluded from that encounter that Brian Herbert was sincere in his endeavors and was unlikely to be simply trying to cash in from his father's work.

I read Hunters and Sandworms and enjoyed them for what they were but I would love to take a look at that "Dune 7 notes" floppy disk.

I enjoyed them. Some of Frank's later stuff wasn't any better...

I'm pretty ambivalent about the Herbert/Anderson books. The house books weren't terrible, but the final Dune saga books were week sauce that felt rushed and seems to be more geared to complete their 'legends' books arcs than finish Frank's original series. They just didn't have the philosophical chops to pull it off and the ending anticlimactic. I was especially disappointed with the Daniel/Marty 'reveal' which kind of destroyed the themes that bound Frank's books together. I got though the first 1-3/4 of the Machine Jihad books, but they were so repetitive and predictable with terribly written characters (they seem to make the same obvious mistakes over and over) I finally just gave up. So, overall, not a fan of Brian/Kevin's take on the Dune universe.

The very fact that they turned the Butlarian Jihad into a literal machine war put me off ever reading them.
It was a ideological conflict. A casting off.

The are all canon so fans should stop hating the other books not written by Herbert.

Wouldn't work as a ghola. The Tleilaxu would alter his genium. So we couldn't get Frank Herbert back. Well not as a ghola. Now bring him back as a clone, like Teg. Then it is a possibility. I would like to talk to him anyway. Therefore: we should look into it promptly.

I love Frank Herbert, but I disagree with his interview which you played part of in some of your videos, saying that JFK was the worst president because we implicitly followed him and it landed us in Vietnam, not know at the time that JFK was assassinated by the CIA for the military so that he couldn't prevent Vietnam from happening. It's literally in the pudding now, they and 4 other factions carried out the murder of a president, his brother, and MLK because they were fixing to destroy a lot of shady peoples bottom line. I do agree that Nixon was the best example in that time of how bad a president could be and how far they may go to maintain their power. someone comes to mind this day, but I'll not charge this thread with that. I personally want to get more into Brian's works as the titan rebellion particularly seems interesting to me.

I read the two books they wrote to finish the story... don't plan on reading any other books they write in the Dune Universe. says it all.

I read a few of the books and frankly found them extremely boring. After a while it felt like a chore for me to read them. I had to give up... there are too many good books to read to waste time reading poorly written books. That's how I felt.

in short:meehhh

Whatever minor interest I have with Dune, the original Dune Trilogy entitled The Great Dune Trilogy is plenty for me.

I've only read 5 of the non-Frank Dune books. They are lesser entries, but I wouldn't say they deserve derision. I do have a telling personal observation. I've read and reread Dune,Dune Messiah, and Children more times than I know, and am re-listening to them again. I don't have any desire to re-read the non-Frank expanded universe books I've read only once.

Ive listened to a few of Brian’s books and I think they felt enough like they belonged to the universe and I enjoyed them.

There is a lot of wiggle room in phrases like "based off of notes"

I like the additional books. I wanted to know what happened to Duncan after he fled Chapter house. Of course it's almost impossible to write as Frank Herbert did, that's why it takes two authors to do the job. I've lost count as to how many times I've re-read all the books. I'm reading God Emperor of Dune again. Every time I read the books I notice something different that I didn't get the time before. All in all I like them ( God Emperor probably the least.) But necessary for the story line.

I read Dune and that was it. I dont regret it. I heard it gets convoluted the longer it goes on. Not only that but i didnt like that Frank make the OG character a total loser in later books to get the point across that people shouldn't be like/diefy Paul. Herbert hating that people lived paul was what made me not continue.

My problem with the follow on books is that they are too much Anderson, and not enough Herbert...

Team 6 books and everything else was fan fiction

I totally agree. Brian and Kevin, I believe, misunderstood the nuance of what Frank was trying to portray giving us the Saimechs and also misused characters who were being set up for deeper roles, Sheeana Burgh being a big one. However, ignoring how rushed Sandworms seemed, they write well. If the machine crusade books were taken further by making them based in a new universe of Brian and Kevins own making i think i'd have enjoyed them more.

You know Hollywood is eventually going to adapt this to film like a bunch of assholes. This is like the sci fi version of Game Of Thrones.

Tried to read Dune out of high school library in 1979 but couldn’t get into it. Thinking of giving it another shot.

“A move towards a more typical narrative style. Action sequences feature more prominently”. To me this highlights a lot of the reason I can’t get behind these books. Thoughtfulness and philosophy being replaced by an almost juvenile interpretation of his father ideas.

I really like the Brian Herbert books. I’m glad he finished his father’s series, I don’t care what anyone says …Frank told his son the ending.

Sorry but no Frank Herberts writeing isnt untouchable. I read heritics of dune the whole thing! I know of vaginal temperature control. Thats not even the problmatic part the implication was that the honered matraes* had gotten so good at having sex that they enslaved worlds. Its stupid and poorly written. It is steaped deeply in philosphy and poses questions but there not good ones there just really really weird.

Honestly love the prequel stuff but it is a noticeable downgrade from Frank, great scifi I view mostly as fanfic. Great honest review though 👍

I just can't read them. I started to read them when they came out, just to get more Dune in my life. Now, I just look at them as bad fan fiction.

Brian Herbert should’ve waited and consulted Robert Greene to help write the Dune expansion. I feel like his understanding of power dynamics and human nature would have been compatible with Frank Herbert’s writing in the Dune saga. A missed opportunity, oh well…

I think the sequel books are bad by virtue of comparison. Taken on their on merits, they're not bad, just somewhat generic in my opinion. The problem is, they can't be taken on their own merits. The fact that they're a continuation/ expansion of the original series means a comparison between them is inevitable. Unfortunately, compared to the original series, the sequels fall far short.

I like the expanded universe (especially the first 3 prequels). I loved the big "reveal" of omnious and Erasmus at the very end.

Brian Herbert raped his father’s literary legacy. Very poorly written.

🪱

Yeah by the time he wrote “Seven Eleven Managers Of DUNE” I felt the IP had been throughly wrung dry.

Didn't Frank Herbert disown his own son 🤨

You also need to be mindful that the original novel of Dune and its novel companions are massively expanded versions of the serials published in Analog magazine of December 1963 and January and February of 1964.

Im with the actual majority. The orignal book is a masterpiece. Book 2 is good and the rest is varying degrees of trash. I cant even imagine how bad the son's work is given the state of the series before he started.

I tried to get into them but just didn't find them well written. I like the concept and I'm flexible on canon-purity. But the over-exposition and repetition and clumsy call backs were just too distracting. The original novels had a measured quality and stronger grasp of cadence.

the BUTTlerian jihad

Read the first five expanded books, then threw them in the bin... not in my universe.

I'd rate expanded dune as
1: great house trilogy
2:sequel duology
3: interquel duology
4: butlerian jihad trilogy
5: great schools trilogy

House Corrino felt to me like pulp-fiction compared to the literary works of Frank Herbert. It was so disappointing that I just couldn't get myself to read the rest.

Daniel and Marty being Frank and his wife Beverly is so touching to me

I read the ‘House’ books a while after I head read Frank’s books. They immediately struck me as strictly fan fiction by someone who really REALLY liked the Star Wars movies, a space opera in the vein of the Honor Harrington series by David Weber. I resented that all the themes of ecology, religious and messiah skepticism, human potential, and the sweeping sense of history were all gone. I thought they really cheapened the Butlerian Jihad, Spacing Guild, Bene Gesserit, and the feudal society that were so intriguing in Frank Herbert’s books. I appreciate your balanced view of them, but I suppose I fall into the ‘Hate Em’ camp myself.