This is why I don't need a mastering engineer!

Hi i never thought that my mixes will sound that good mastered by you Wytse :) Keep pushing and btw. I love your vlogs

OMG I had the same reflection. I think they more often than not decrease the quality of a previously good mix. They alienated my ears in the late 90's/ early 2000's with their loudness war.
I'm an amateur but I know two things are unnecessary : Mastering engineers and compressors. The latter I can accept for purely artistic purposes in specific cases but with parcimony but the former I consider them a bit of a fraud.

It's all relationships. Audio mastering is a service after all, not a fixed thing. It's sooo much more than processing.

A fresh set of ears, yes, but more than that: mastering is a different way of listening compared to mixing. Can't stress that enough. Listening like a fan, less like an engineer. While making a musical connection with the project, you have a distance from it.

Mastering for 20+ years and no problem working ITB – as long the artist is happy with their mix (as they should be). And especially if the tone and tightness is already there.

Most MEs are happy to give feedback or tips – if asked. They're not mindreaders. If you have concerns about what you're submitting – ask!
If you're that unsure if your mix(es) are ready, you're probably better off seeking a producer first.

Mixes go to mastering when the client requests it. Most are fine with my masters. I'm sure I'm a bit biased, but honestly, I think I can count on one hand the amount of times masters have come back sounding better than mine. If your mixes translate it's not difficult to make your masters translate too.

Good advice all round Wytse, thank you, will definitely use an external mastering engineer as another point of refernce - probably you!

id rather master my own stuff i got pride i want it to be me alone and i only its just a better feeling

I hear what the mastering services usually talk about, and that is to fix not finished or well done mixes. That is nonsense to me, and a waste of time and energy. Master your own when the mix is brilliant.

As a producer (Keyboard player)I believe mixing and mastering are a part of what the end result is.

What's your speedcube record? 😀

I'm really happy whit Ozone 10👍 it's sounds werry good, maby if my music get a big, i wil use a top-end engineer, but for now O10 are good enough👍

Great advice. Great video.

I am really tired of the snobbiest of comments like "if they say they do mixing and mastering, they are prob bad at both". Get over yourself lol. Love this video.

Hello there and sorry for not asking this in a private message, but would you mix and master weirder alternative music, similar to what for example Flume makes (Palaces/HTIF mixtape)?
I'm working on a little EP and it's kinda similar "genre".
I would mix it myself but when it comes to more complex stuff like this my room/headphones don't really allow me to hear anything objectively.

Thanks for the content and reply in advance <3

It’s offensive to call yourself Engineer - your not engineers

for me... music is an art. I really don't feel good knowing someone else did the master for me. even tho I think it's not good enough... it's the beauty of art. it's never perfect. that's what makes us humans, falling and going again. I really dislike the idea of AI on songs even!

Missing the old intro sound 🤭

As a hobbyist, Who would NOT want a professional mastering engineer to master their tracks? Like WSS
Some of us, Just cannot justify the cost, And with noise complaints from neighbours Can not use monitors the police may confiscate them. Lol
It Is What It Is
Life too short
Much Love ❤

Why should I master my songs when my mixes sound dull, muddy or distorded… 😂 After a half minute my ears get used to the sound

Best advice I could've heard. Total autonomy, from laying tracks or inputting midi to channel edits and mastering. With the staggering number of tools available exploration and experimentation are damn near limitless. We're talking total immersion. Never considered myself a producer. Always had a strong idea of how the basic rhythm section should feel tho'. You spend sometime with it. You make the mistakes and learn from them. For me it became addicting. Your sense of what works evolves. You begin to see in a very practical way how mastering might not be so intimidating. How it could be a natural progression of having a clear sense of what you want and being at the board endless hours discovering ways to achieve it. The tell tale is when even rudimentary channel edits begin to sound like slightly more than an amateur hand has been at them. Nothing beats independence. Damn fine channel. I'm glad I found it.

Mixing and mastering some tracks from a friend he was mad about not featuring a sample of a famous game, or watch(casio) or something that he put in this song.
It was "nothing" to me and it told no story. He never called back.

Thanks bro this is authentic and appreciated because your are both mixing & mastering SME (Subject Matter Expert).

Denniz Pop Forever!

Majority of highly experienced mastering engineers cant listen to frequencies above 10k.

Waiting for the Karog avalon 747 review!!!

The definition of mastering is "transfering the final mix to the media of distribution". The sound and artistic vision is done in the mixing process. No pro level engineer expects sonically anything different from the mastering house than what he/she gave them to begin with. Mastering in the analog age was (and still is) a very dedicated and difficult craft, cutting the disk and so forth but in the digital age it has attracted much attention mainly due to the poor quality of average mixing abilities. I agree with your approach and find the "necessity" of mastering (unless producing for vinyl) a bit overrated

I’m mastering my mixes for clients way more now days, but I always suggest hiring a mastering engineer if they can afford it. The element of collaboration is essential. Yes we can do it all ourselves but having a team and collaborating usually gets the best results.

Interesting as I often do that too.
Although I am facing one issue :
As a mixing engineer, it’s easy to get used the song. To the point that mastering the song will require a few days of rest at least. Which is not always possible on projects with tight deadline (and some mastering engineers can sometimes provide a master in one day).

So in summary you don’t need a mastering Engineer because you are one! 👍

Agree with you on this! Glad someone finally pushing back against the old "You cannot master yourself" mantra. It's just another aspect/skill set to learn and ahem master😁

Heard some of your mix you do need a mastering engineer.

she holds the key

Buy great monitors and sit on a well treated room, and duplicate yourself to give constructive feedback on your other half personality that mixed the track for hours.... Yeah that's dumb.
Mixers listen to hours and hours the same song in repeat to give all the little touch needed ... How on earth would they be proficient to master it after this ?
You still need a fresh good pair of ears that has the environment setup to listen and feedback your song.
Maybe the futur of mastering engineer would be like : quality control AI mastered tracks and give some little tweaking to it. You won't need fancy hardware anymore, just prompting the music quality that you want ... what a bright futur for music isn't ? (...) Let's just do some dirty drake AI and make a tons of view on tiktok for a change LOL

This is exactly how I do it too

What’s your opinion on AI mastering services like Landr?

you really give the mix session project ?

Excellent, balanced perspective. There's a lot of different approaches to achieving great results. 👍

Hello,
I am French, I do not necessarily master the language of Shakespeare very well, you will forgive me I hope ... In short, it raises questions for me about the very activity of the sound engineer because anyone can declare himself a sound engineer without competence elsewhere. That is a problem.
And does the latter have a technical or artistic activity, I personally lean towards the first because it is necessary to respect the work of the artist but it is still a debate open in my eyes, because the investment could then be different and a work of technical and artistic collaboration could grow the works and develop a new business model in the field.
I hope to make myself understood because it is something that fascinates me and I agree that a third person is important, for the rest I have grown older and I have gained my own experience.
musically yours
Sylvain

As a mixing engineer I feel objected to say I 'master' a song. However, my clients come to me for a one-stop-shop solution. They simply want to hand over the stems and get the final product back.
I really dislike saying I master songs, but in the eyes of my clients I do :)

Hi thanks. Very interesting topic.

If it hadn't been for my opportunity to participate in a genuinely high-end mastering session for an entire album, I would have been overwhelmed with countless perspectives from various mastering engineers regarding what's essential in mastering.

As a producer, I've drawn the following conclusions:

1. Mastering engineering is vital for presenting your final product. The role of a Mastering Engineer cannot be understated.
2. Mastering engineers should be viewed as an essential member of the team. Their impact on the final product is profound.
3. Software has yet to rival the capabilities of high-end mastering hardware.
4. Gear MATTERS. Only a select few high-end mastering engineers truly invest in elite mastering equipment. Many opt for what they can afford. If you're seeking top-tier mastering, look for an engineer using high-end gear from brands in the same caliber as Maselec, Shadow Hills Mastering Compressor, API, and original Pultec. Quality unquestionably has its price.
5. Different musical styles necessitate varied analog compression topologies. One track of your album might thrive with a high-end Pultec touch, while another might not.
6. A moderately experienced mastering engineer can often yield superior results merely by processing your track through a chain of high-end gear, as referenced in point 4. In many instances, this will surpass the work of a highly seasoned engineer who depends solely on software or mid-tier hardware.
7. Whenever possible, ensure you attend a mastering session to guarantee your vision for the final product is realized. If you can't be present at the mastering session, there's a significant risk that the outcome might not align with your envisioned sound.
8. "What you hear is what you get" holds true only when you've compared different engineers, gear, and mix-bus processing combinations.
9. If you receive 3 high-end masters from 3 different engineers, you'll probably get 3 distinct results, and they might not precisely capture your unique vision as a musician regarding the final sound.
10. A mastering engineer often takes a safe, middle-of-the-road approach to cater to a wider audience accustomed to an industry-standard or sonic profile. Take, for instance, Electric Light Orchestra's "Don't Bring Me Down." The initial percussion moments mirror a mastering technique that's hard to come by nowadays. It's regrettable, as such nuances could make your work stand out amidst the countless weekly releases. I challenge you to find a current engineer who'd use an 1176 on the mix bus.
11. Commit to the demanding route and be ready to invest substantially in an engineer who merits it. Your creative work and its presentation are on the line, and the right decision can be TRANSFORMATIVE.
12. Finally, do not master your own songs!

Conclusion:

Quality of Gear is paramount!
Prioritize mastering engineers who let you attend sessions and provide input. The insights from such a session are invaluable. Moreover, it allows you to verify if the equipment listed online is actually available on-site.
Avoid cutting corners financially if you're earnest about your music.
If genuine high-end mastering is beyond your reach, several online mastering AI bots can provide great results. It's a harsh reality for many engineers, but that's where the industry is headed. AI is poised to make a significant number of mid-tier mastering services obsolete.

"the best mixes don't need mastering" - Bob Katz

I agree in part as you've come up with some great comments here. That's why I setup the Mastering In The Box channel to teach others how to Master. That being said I would still recommend getting to know a Mastering Engineer, that you can get along with and can trust, that will provide honest feedback on your mixes. Like Wytse mentions his skills he developed over time, and as such it's not realistic to think that from day one you're going to be able to get the best sound ever without building up that knowledge and skillset. Half the battle is not necessarily using a Mastering Engineer, but finding one that will help you develop as an Artist/Engineer.

Thanks for the discplaimer at the beginning of the video, I clicked right away. Too many controversial stuff on the internet anywayz.

Interesting video mate. I was questioning the value of a mastering-engineer until I met one quite by chance here in rural France.
This engineer who has NEVER seen my set up listened to my latest 'masterpiece' and instead of hugging me in disbelief declaring my genius through tears of joy (which is what I expected)... He just frowned and said: "It's sounds like you recorded the vocals with the wrong microphone in your kitchen!"
He was right on both counts! I have made so many changes since then and James from Pig Shed has now earned my loyalty.
Best wishes, stay creative, but at the same time make it your OWN sound. 👍⚒️🎶

This is the truth...Most engineers are scared to admit this!

All my colleagues: Why you sending all your stuff to (insert famous mastering studio)? I can make it sound as good or better.
Also them: i can't do it