How Editors Know if Your Writing Is Good

We have reached a point whereby anything worth reading has been written and it’s author is dead.

It is appalling to me to see folks who consider themselves authority figures in writing display such utter unawareness of web basics. "I think it's called clickbait?" And then one wonders why there is such a disconnect....

Victor just ran off with interviewing the interviewer...

Too much about journalism, and not writing

Clickbait is just another way of saying “if it bleeds, it leads” but the difference is it can be applied to subjects that aren’t the least bit sensational. All it takes is a misleading thumbnail. You can even design a thumbnail that looks like a frame from your video, except that frame doesn’t exist.

So it’s the same kind of deceptive advertising but with even less real substance behind it.

“Our advertisers want clicks”

I feel like the whims of advertisers cause more trouble than they’re worth. Why would an advertiser ever support content that goes against ad populum? They don’t, they censor it or withdraw support. Truth isn’t always marketable. More often than not it’s a bitter pill to swallow. We need truthtellers that aren’t beholden to corporate financial support. We subject so many things to metrics like clicks that are only useful for predicting financial loss or gain. There’s no room for other forms of value, authentic value. Everything has to go through the money machine to become more than worthless. The business-minded gatekeeper cares little how good or bad something is. Hello Twilight.

*Note: I am not commenting on recent battles between advertisers and others. I do not support boycotts on companies based on protecting hate and advertisers bailing from those deals is good for society. It doesn’t always pan out that way.

My favorite novel of the 20th century, Trainspotting, was published originally as a serial in a journal or magazine before Welsh turned it into a novel. Not every book worth reading can be self-published and thrive or get published. Just like some of the world’s best athletes walk amongst us unknown because they never performed in the spotlight.

Pulp fiction like Weird Tales used salacious and lurid art to market fiction to an audience struggling for basic survival. Naturally juveniles were their primary demographic. Nonetheless authors like Howard, Lovecraft, Bloch, Bradbury and several others wrote for these magazines. The deception worked in reverse - disposable fiction written by talented authors instead of hacks. Farnsworth Wright, editor, played an instrumental role in this. He didn’t force authors to conform to business calculations, but he wasn’t afraid to reject a good story that just didn’t fit. Sometimes he knew, somehow, that a story that seemed unremarkable or awkward would blow up and lead to decades of commercial success.

I see a distinction between a writer and an author.

Wow, the lady gives vague , utterly non descriptive, but short responses. The gentleman gives long winded answers void of substance. It’s like getting feedback from Polonius and a fortune cookie. Popular writing is not the same as good (quality) writing. The decline of critical thinking and the resulting progressive simplification of literature, because the bar for accessibility keeps lowering, has watered down writing— and we’re losing the ability to notice the difference. People used to be demanding readers, now we’re just literate.

Walking dead doom scroll 💀💀💀

If you submit your book to a hundred different editors, you will get a hundred different opinions.

I bypassed these self-appointed gatekeepers long ago. They're a blight on the human consciousness.

She’s an editor, reportedly, who doesn’t know the difference between fiction and non-fiction! 🤦🏼😂🤣 If I was ‘transported into another world and could see the characters move around’, I’d be very worried…😅

per ChatGPT: Here’s an outline of 15 top-level orthogonal points derived from the transcript, with a single level of subpoints highlighting the significance of each main point:

1. Immersion as a Sign of Good Writing
Good writing transports the reader to another world, making the reading experience feel seamless and immersive.
2. Clarity and Engagement in Short-Form Writing
In shorter or time-sensitive pieces, clarity and engagement are essential for the story to be followed easily from the start.
3. Identifying Quality Early in a Text
Experienced editors and writers can often determine the quality of a piece within the first few lines, without needing to read the entire work.
4. The Subjective Nature of "Voice"
A distinctive voice in writing is often praised, but it’s hard to define, although it typically involves honesty, control, and connection with the audience.
5. The Democratization of Writing via the Internet
The internet has shifted the landscape of writing, with anyone being able to write and gain an audience, challenging traditional gatekeeping.
6. The Quality vs. Popularity Dilemma
Popularity, especially in terms of clicks and hits, doesn’t necessarily equate to quality writing, as seen in comparisons between viral content and literary works.
7. The Role of Editing in Maintaining Standards
Editing remains crucial in improving writing by providing structure, clarity, and refinement, but much online content bypasses this step.
8. The Fast-Paced Nature of Online Writing
The quick turnaround of online writing leads to fewer drafts and revisions, potentially sacrificing the depth and quality of the content.
9. Subjectivity in Determining Good Ideas for Writing
A good writing subject depends heavily on the writer’s approach; even mundane topics can become captivating with the right energy and skill.
10. The Impact of Clickbait on Editorial Decisions
Editors are increasingly pressured to produce content that generates clicks, even if it compromises traditional journalistic values or depth.
11. The Shift in Editorial Roles Due to Metrics
Editors now face the dual role of curating quality content and ensuring that it meets the demands of digital metrics like click rates and engagement.
12. The Use of Headline Testing for Reader Engagement
Online publications frequently test multiple headlines for the same story to maximize clicks, reflecting the shift toward optimizing content for engagement.
13. The Challenge of Predicting Audience Interests
Despite efforts to predict what will engage readers, true interest is often unpredictable, and audiences may not know what will captivate them until they encounter it.
14. The Blurred Line Between Quality Content and Clickbait
Even intelligent readers are drawn to clickbait, but this doesn’t necessarily reflect their assessment of the content’s value, highlighting a conflict between commercial and editorial priorities.
15. The Influence of Advertising on Content Strategy
Advertising demands have led to a shift in how stories are chosen, edited, and promoted, with some content being strategically placed to attract specific readers or clicks for advertisers.
This outline identifies the core themes of the conversation—how writing quality is judged, the impact of the internet on writing standards, and how commercial pressures shape editorial decisions. The subpoints delve into how these factors influence the industry from both the writer's and editor's perspectives.

As an avid reader I know in the first sentence or less...

A really good book has to bring you into its world. There’s an indefinable magic to it and, frankly, it’s rare.

They don't. They publish a lot of crap and say no to a lot of good stuff. And somtimes they know, and then they make a little money to compensate their previous numerous mistakes.

They're all very lucky, I scarcely know any people that take clickbait (or any news media for that matter) seriously anymore
although I dont know if sacrificing integrity and journalism for a pittance was worth it

Texting is not writing. A significant number of "social influencers" are suiciding. Who
are these "writers"? Great writers are also well spoken. Most everyone nowadays says " like" repeatedly. Without even hearing it. Gimme a break.

For me, I can tell whether writing is a good piece of writing from the first sentence to the end of the first chapter. There are some stories which grab you from sentence one. "Tonight we're going to show you eight silent ways to kill a man." grabs you from the very beginning.

There are people who can give you two or three sentences and describe someone extremely deftly. You would be able to recognize them very clearly from these short descriptions.

And how people end a chapter is a big notation too. Does the ending tie everything up neatly in a bow (which is bad) or does it leave you with a cliff-hanger that compels you to turn the page (good).

An absence of red flags is key. Use of language, particularly lack of misspellings and lack of cliches is another big sign. If a person uses two or three cliches in their story, that's an immediate red flag. If somebody says something like, "We're gonna need a bigger boat." or "Hasta la vista baby" or "I have a bad feeling about this." you've heard those lines before and you know you're in the hands of a hack. A great writer won't steal lines from other famous authors or writers.

Good writing is almost completely original. It doesn't copy lines of description or things that came before.

The concept of the piece is another big sign. Does this person know what makes for a good story or not? Is this about a serial killer who only kills people who get drunk or is this a story about what you bought at Walmart? The first story is original and compelling. The other story is boring. Who cares what you bought at Walmart? People want to know more about serial killers and their potential victims.

What those boork that are burn and out of print from society, are those not good writing?.

The writer must have something of value to say.

Do you have a rich husband? Excuse me - do YOU have a rich wife??

The definition of violence is ''the unjust use of force.'' 900 words would be a huge waste of time.

Whatever they are trying to convey, just reading eight lines or a short paragraph is pretty ridiculous. I agree, not everyone is a great writer, but many can write well. These so-called editors are just trying to make their jobs look fancy and make themselves appear smart.

They talk about great writing but where are these writers? Give us names and their piece and where is this piece. One can see and study and learn. 😮

Mmm your title is not what they talk about; only the first five minutes or so; after it's about 'what the writing and publishing world is like today'. Interesting, but not why I clicked.

Interesting that it was the editor who cut in on everyone, cross talked and interrupted constantly.

I gotta say - these people might be lovely, but they come off completely insufferable in this video.

I never read the ads

I like the idea of tricle down writing

Writers can only be as good as their readers.

The internet has made it easier for readers to read what they really like, and that's bad... for those who aren't statistically part of the working class. If audiences are devolving, that's apparently true, but hard to prove.

Why not just make all novels one page long? Or fit them in a tweet? Sigh. Not every book "grabs you" in eight lines, or eight chapters, and that's intentional, by design. Not all books are the same, so not all books can be judged by the same metric.

This went off the rails, needs editing.

Good writing may be subjective and difficult to pin down, but when I look at my old work I see plenty of bad writing. My newer work certainly seems like much better writing. And in critique groups, I have definitely seen plenty of examples of the nearest possible thing to objectively bad writing. Writing that makes no sense. Writing that focuses on its dull content and skates over its really interesting content (and not as some examination of the mundane). Bad writing can be popular and even satisfying, just like junk food. That doesn't mean there's no such thing as fine dining...

This is so funny to me. It's all so pretentious. Simultaneously, they talk about good writing while being completely incapable of describing good writing. Meanwhile, Brandon Sanderson or KM Weiland can break down why something works or doesn't work in minute detail without sounding pretentious in the least. 😊

Moderator smirks at the out of date term “Web”. Calling it the Net isn’t that enlightened.

I found more useful information in the comments than I found in the video.

an editor is wannabe writer who rides the waves of a writer. the market decides if a writing is good or not.

I give a book ten pages. If the protagonist isn't out on a limb with someone/thing sawing it off by then, then I lose interest.

"How editors know if your writing is good."
"Click bait is bad."
"Also, we only talk about how editors know if your writing is good for the first 15 seconds."

Takeaway points:
LOSE YOUR READER
1. (her) Good nonfiction writing is one where you lose awareness that you are reading - you get engrossed.
2. (him) I'm more forgiving of works written in short time (3hrs). So I look for the simple thing: Am I able to follow the story and is it clear and interesting? This decision should be made on the FIRST read through. If it takes multiple reads to understand - time to talk to the writer.
EIGHT LINES
3. (host) A judge of the Booker Prize told me that one knows if a book is good after reading the first eight lines.
4. (him) I had a similar experience where I was challenged to predict the winner of a prize based on the quality of the first paragraph and I was able to predict correctly.
UNIQUE (NARRATIVE) VOICE
5.(her) Voice matters. I want to feel....
TRUST AND TRUTH -
6. (her) the writer is frank, thruthfful and trustworthy. [I think she means the trust that the writer know what they are doing, andwill follow through and deliver a good story and good writing]
MAKE THE MUNDANE INTERESTING
7. (her) I've read about trips to the dentist that were electrifying and pieces about a car crash or a warzone that were dull.
CHOOSE YOUR READER: "GIMME ME WHAT I WANT" VS "SURPRISE ME"
8. (host/her/her} click bait; A/B testing titles; curious readers want new things vs write about what's on everyone's mind

[The rest is shop talk about the publishing business]

ignore editors
write what you want about what you want however you want
the internet allows everyone to find their audience, just be patient, it will happen
never worry about external validation, youre in this for the art, not the cred, so be an artist and let the rest of the world burn

Are you all gonna fight all night, or will we learn something?

There are many bad writers with great stories filled with people and places we've never imagined and there are as many great writers who write dull material nobody cares about. So, the idea that you have to be a good writer to have a short story or novel is just not accurate. What you do need as a bad writer is a lot of help. I can't tell you how many best-seller books I have tried and felt I wanted my time back. It doesn't necessarily mean I didn't like it because it wasn't my taste.

This woman is very intelligent and actually gives answers to the questions. I wish she had spoken more than the gentleman in the center.

Watching this in 2525...
Click bait was a contested term?

PICK MOST ANY LITERARY AGENCY OR PUBLISHER, get about five to eight names, find them on the internet, click in, click on "agents," and up pops their photos, bios, expectations, and what do you see looking back at you? About 80%, often more. And if you don't share their "philosophy" you are not getting considered, be it a novel or whichever fiction. They control what gets published. CONTROL!

Funner isn't a word, good sir. Talk about good and bad writing!

You are not writing for an Editor. You are writing for yourself. These windbags are wasting your time.