Roleplaying in Video Games (and why I barely do it)

Thanks for watching. First off, if you wanna keep up to date with me and stuff I am putting out, follow me on twitter @theRazbuten.

Secondly, I will have one more video this year (I had my wife, also known as the Lady I Live With, play what I think is the most important game of the decade), so get excited for that. It has been a really cool time for the channel, and I am excited to keep putting out stuff that you all hopefully enjoy. I hope the 2020 will be the most productive and prolific year the channel has had so far, and that'd be impossible with out your support. So, with all of my heart: thank you. I appreciate you.

Lastly, let me know your experiences with roleplaying in video games? Do you relate? Have you tried to do the shit I did in this video? How'd it go? I am definitely curious as to how other people approach it.

I feel like having options for backstories and temperament is a good solution for this. Like how if you have low intelligence in the original Fallout games, you don’t have as many dialogue options. Make the player choose the general path of what they want they character to be, and limit their options to that path. Sure it limits player freedom, but it is the only real way to make roleplaying actually work. Also having a preset backstory works because although they can’t have many options, it at least should make sense with the story, and actually give motivation to the character. Obviously I don’t think that every game needs this, but it would be nice to see someone take that path.

This just sounds like a you problem. If you can play DnD without any issues then you can do it in video games as well. If all you can do is play as yourself then you're unironically rping the wrong way. Maybe these games aren't for you and that's fine.

Let's be honest: Oblivion, Failout 4, and Skyrim are just Hexen with a few extra layers to it, and nothing more. Now we have Shartfield, the same thing yet again in a different setting.

Baldurs gate 3 solved this

THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH FOR WARNING ABOUT THE COMING SPOILERS FOR THE WITCHER 3 AT THE BEGINNING. For real, thank you. I am going to save this video and be sure to watch it after I finish. I am glad the "it's an old game" argument didn't show up and you actually didn't give spoilers. For real, THANK YOU!!!

The best RPG game in recent years is, of course, Kingdom Come Deliverance.

The best roleplay I ever managed in a game was a "paladin" in Skyrim that I accidentally stumbled across a daedric quest with. This resulted in an evil mace that was too tempting. It caused me to switch to corrupted paladin mode, and that is the most truly evil character I've ever role played as. Almost immediately murdered someone and ended up in the dark brotherhood, ended up with stealth platemail, destructive spells, all kinds of stuff.
It scares me, because what if I ever come across that "dark, demonic mace" irl? : O

As someone who always rp some character or another in rpgs ( And even games that are not. ) I kind of understand why it's difficult to rp in games. I think it's mostly because of one single thing, it's that the devs create games with a "good way" to play in mind, for exemple in Cyberpunk 2077, the game design force you to confront the battles directly, hacking being more of a mmo skill than a real solution to solve a quest, and stealth being useful only in side quests. So for exemple, if you play an ex megacorpo employee having close to no practical skill but being highly intelligent and charismatic due to his previous experience, even if the settings allow it, you can't pay for mercenaries to do the dirty jobs in your stead, or bribe your way through the quest nor manipulate the differents factions according to your agendas. Why ? Because the game is not designed for it, it's made to be an fps with rpg elements.

But in my exemple I could also play the ex employee being penniless in the streets learning how to be violent and get the shit done. It's where a little adaptation skill is needed. Also, it's not so tiresome, you don't need to write a diary, nor you need to always be in character, just have fun making decisions according to your character is enough, and you don't even need to have a developped character, just some stereotype works. The dark overly broody outlaw overly serious in all situation is a character in itself, and he could be fun in a openly parodic game, and it's enough to rp and have fun doing it, and guess what ? You will make some true memories in game that will stay with you, memories that you made with your own story.

This video inadvertently serves as a guide for how to approach creating and roleplaying a character, be it in tabletop RPGs, CRPGs or mainstream AAA games.

I feel like Divinity OS2 works quite well for this. You can make an own character, or go for one of the origin characters, which are predefined.

This cruel bastard recommended the Kingkiller Chronicle. Love it.

I know this is an old video of yours, but I stumbled upon it while searching for inspiration for my starfield character.

I agree with your sentiment, that the main story from e.g. Skyrim is in the way of a proper RP experience - at least vanilla. There are mods out there to disable the main quest, though.
So you might now ask what to do in the game without the main quest? I think especially Skyrim (Bethesda titles in general) works pretty darn well without the story.
the story in Bethesda games, most notably The Elder Scrolls, is somewhat generic to keep room for all the different variations the player can be: sex, race, abilities/skills and things he might have done(e.g. quests).

But on the flip side, all these variations are key to create as many stories, and you would like and create your own "main story". Let me explain:
With 3 simple mods, I turned Skyrim into an epic adventure for my character.
1. unleveled loot and enemies (fixed levels for enemies e.g. Vampires will always be level 40+ + no glass armor bandits etc. anymore due to rare loot - potentially only one set of e.g. ebonheart armour)
2. Live another life
3. Dawnguard delayed ( important for the character if he wants to join the Vigilants of Stendarr)

In theory these mods are somewhat unspectacular, I know, but let me explain how this example character works.
I will skip attributes and perks in general and only outline the core story.
The character's parents were killed by vampires. While compassionate, usually the character absolutely hates vampires and to a lesser degree other beasts like werewolf, spriggan and so forth.
The character was raised an orphan, ran away from the orphanage(wonder why...) and works as a day laborer in Riverwood. Cutting wood in the day, selling it to a merchant, in the evening, renting a room at the local inn and eat/drink and sleep there.
This is basically the background of the character(condensed a lot!).
Eventually the character has had enough of it, the people in this village bore him and the hate of vampires is the desire for vengeance is nagging at him, so he decides to kill the vampires.

What a boring story, right? Wrong.
This is where the fun begins. The character knows, that Vampires are tough, and he wouldn't stand a chance against one - after all, he is a nobody chopping wood. If he wants to have even the slightest chance, he needs to prepare. So he tries to get a hand on a book about vampires, see what their weakness is, how one can fight and kill them.

Now you are free to branch out as you see fit and makes sense for the character. The character might find a book that tells him silver is good or fire is the vampire's weakness. The character could try to find more info on the vampires, and try to buy a silver weapon.
If the character doesn't find any, he might think of getting better in smithing, so he can craft a silver weapon.
Wait, you said fire is good against vampires? Dang it, the character is dogshit with magic, but maybe he can create a fire enchantment, while not adept in magic he might be a bit better in enchanting stuff (or maybe he is not, so you dont spend any perk points in enchantment.)

On his ways he might meet the Vigilants of Stendarr? What will your character do? Join them and destroy the daedric artifacts you can get when doing the quests? Or maybe you want to use the artifacts against the vampires etc. Will you join the DG after the Vigilants get destroyed?

This is obviously just a tiny little sneak peek what is possible with a few mods. There are other mods that one could use to customize the gameplay even further. e.g. I never play without "Campire" and "Frostfall" mod.

Thank you for writing a dnd character for me!

I'm actually exactly like this in every RPG... except for Disco Elysium. In that game even the first time I played it I absoluletly felt like I was roleplaying as this crazy, drunk, goofy but still intelligent detective and had a blast with it. I was annoying Kim every chance I got. And in different playthroughs I played that character in different ways.

I’m going to role-play like this I want to try it

I usually play using my own conscience first playthrough but then roleplay on later runs. Most common example is with all my Elder Scrolls and Fallout characters. Aside from some original characters I've made, I also like inserting various characters from other media. Creating fitting villain arcs is especially rewarding. I'm currently doing a mostly unarmed playthrough of Fallout 4 as John Kreese and eventually having him strike Father hard and fast with no mercy, blow up the Institute for the Brotherhood, and take over Nuka World! He will then of course claim Commonwealth settlements for the Pack and setup arena fights! :D

To me RP games is like a therapeutical environment so I can relieve my anger on innocent npcs.
It's not like "npcs lives matter" anyways.
Also, It's rp not me.

I usually play every game as an exaggerated version of myself

I kind of like when theres a preset backstory when starting a new character

I also think that, especially for players who aren’t used to roleplaying, there can be difficulty in creating your own character. With a blank slate, there’s nothing there to PLAY the ROLE of, and so people just don’t. When you have an established character you’re controlling, that character has motivations and interests that will get you to want to see then be happy. As such, you start playing as them.

I was just talking about this! I hate a lot of modern “RPGs” because they aren’t actual role playing. I’ve been emulating Arc the Lad Twilight princess (PS2) and it’s got me totally captivated despite not even being heavily choice based. It’s made me think about what I miss out of older games most. It also explains why I can LOVE the Witcher and think Skyrim was MEH.

The only game where I felt like I changed through it's course and role played was Kingdom Come: Deliverance. I don't know why, but I started the game being a womanizing thief, but at the main story progressed and I saw all kinds of events occur in the world, Henry slowly became less unhinged, more honest, and settled down with one girl. It was almost like I role played Henry's impulsive behavior after the traumatic events he faced at the start of the game, and watched him slowly heal. Not sure why that one game did it and none of the other did, but it's an excellent RPG.

Your comparison with pen and paper RPGs is really interesting because for me it has always been the other way around. I find it almost impossible to play another character than myself in DnD because I have to psychically act out my character's actions myself. If I want my character to tell someone to fuck off in a video game I simply press the "fuck off" button while if I wanted to do the same in DnD I have to face my DM and personally tell him to fuck off. The way this works in a videogame is far more disconnected from both myself and the real world and that makes it a lot easier to do actions that I wouldn't necessarily do in real life.

The first time I play most RPGs is as myself, not wanting anyone to help me, and just helping others, not touching the healing items that are related to alcohol, trusting others easily, despite not letting them help, but still not being surprised if they end up betraying me.

I am embarrassed and yet proud to say that he lived his Outer Worlds life with more purpose and thought than I live my real one.

Folks are proudly saying they always play as themselves in RPGs. That's valid, it's the way you like playing so what can I do? But I think you just don't get it! Creating characters is satisfying in a way almost nothing else is. Getting your creative juices flowing, nothing's more gratifying.
It's something I find impossible to describe, but i'll try to illuminate it nonetheless: The immersion from interacting with a fictional world as yourself may seem incredible at first, but that screen will always separate you. Through inserting a character of your own authorship, you think. You think, and you think, and if the game is truly great, you ponder harder than you ever had before in a game, because this time we are not representing a 21st century handsome fella (the gamer, you!) with the worldview of the contemporary man, but someone who grew up in the environment of that game's world, someone who truly lives in it. That's immersion. It's the difference between a lizard and a T-Rex.

Fellas also tend to point out: But in this endeavour, why not simply watch a movie or read a book?
And to that, the best I can say would be: You underestimate the unique experience games can offer, but far worse than that, you underestimate your own creativity.

Choice based RPGs that take too long to play tend to discourage players from playing again and trying a different set of choices. The other issue is that a lot of times the devs end up, either out of laziness or out of limited development time, revert to choice A or choice B even though choices might be just as interesting, if not more so, than the original choices.

Mass effect

I don't care about roleplaying. I just wanna make my stats go up and win the game by doing so. If I cared about playing a role I'd go to theater camp.

I think, video game role playing is usually pretty different from tabletop role playing in the sense that you don't create a character with a backstory but develop a character in the game. When I roleplay a character and the game does not give me a backstory, I just settle for a few decissions on gut feeling (which doesn't mean that I go by my own moral code) in the beginning and let that form my character.
I didn't kill the first guy even though it would've gotten me an advantage? Well, then I probably have some sort of moral code now. I stole from another person? Okay, that moral code does not restrict me from breaking the law if necessary.
I talked nice to that one person one time? Okay, I guess I like that person. Which means I probably like persons similar to that person and dislike persons who are the opposite. I also probably dislike person who dislike or are disliked by this person.
It's a kind of roleplay, but it's more improvised and would not go against the story, if the story somewhen tells you something about your canon backstory that it hadn't revealed yet.

I never even thought about actually playing as a character in a game. This video gave me a whole new perspective.

Role play a strategy game

I killed Shaun on top of the ruins of the Institute in the commonwealth when he is about to kick you out.

My thinking was, essentially, “My son died the day his mother was shot. This monster isn’t him, even if he has my DNA.”
And I stuck by that.
I burned the Institute to the ground, killed all of them, didn’t sound the alarm, etc…

They killed my wife, they stole my son, and worst of all, they turned my son into a monster.

Disco Elysium is easily the best role playing game I’ve ever played.
As someone who’s played D&D for a while, it’s the closest to a TTRPG I’ve ever seen.

Can’t agree enough with this video.

With RPG games, I like both extremes of the spectrum, but not the in between. I love games like star citizen, that let you explore without any goal AT ALL. However, I also really like RPGs that make you morph your thoughts to those of the character you play as. When I play games that are in between, it just feels awkward. I think it’s weird to be thrust into a crazy story with a character who seemingly doesn’t care at all. Kingdom Come: Deliverance is one of those RPGs that I think does a great job at using the main character to make you care about the story. When you play as Henry, you WANT to become a knight. You feel Henry’s pained backstory and you want to become the gallivant warrior that he wants to be. The game still lets you explore and have fun though. You can get into debauchery and stealing and even killing random people, but there’s always a reason to go back to the main story and re-envelope yourself in the game world

Most games just dont reward or allow for true immersive roleplaying, you have to just deal with the 2, maybe 3 if youre lucky paths to take.

Man, there aren't any real rpg games, you are not choosing who to role play when you buy game, you are choosing a moovie to watch. The more game pretends to be about choice, the less choice you really have(Pathfinder, divinity, Pillars of eternity)

vgs dont hold a candle to ttrpg for rp

geesh, you sure are overthinking RPG characters.... i never even thought this would be possible.
i usually prefer only playing "myself" in any videogame RPG i play.
for pen&paper / tabletop RPGs this may be different - but in videogames I prefer a blank slate to project on.
i can't roleplay as a completely different charcter in a videogame RPG world, it feels wrong...

Great analysis.

Small thing but 3rd person games are easier to role play than 1st person games imo

This video really resonated with me, as I do the same thing but exclusively in first person games. Halo for example is difficult for me to play, because I never feel as powerful as chief is supposed to be. Part of this, is because I can not see the character. I don’t feel tall like chief, brave like chief, or as intimidating as chief. I continue to play the game hoping the moment comes, when I embody the character. This may happen, as I had the same problem with the Arkham games (so I previously had trouble with 1 third person game) after about 50 hours I started to understand Bruce more, I became obsessed with becoming a symbol of fear.

Celeste I think is the only game that I felt made me go through an actual character arc. Rather than beating difficult challenges to progress the story, the challenges themselves are a metaphor for the challenges in the story. As I completed them and improved at the game, I felt a very strong connection to madeline, who I felt had been through the exact same development. Using the game design itself as a story-telling device is a really rare and difficult thing to get right, but it feels so special when it pays off like that.

OMG The Witcher 3. I started playing like any other rpg, I try to be the good guy in every situation. After what happened in White Orchard, I gave the world a big middle finger and played Geralt as a grisly Witcher that hates everyone. AMAZING writing in my opinion.

I tend to do a compromise, I make characters with their own priorities and limits, but I've not been able to make characters that politically different to me in most games. basically anyone I play becomes some sort of anarcho-communist, unless I have a good reason for them to be cruel/stupid enough not to oppose unjust power.

I never thought someone would want to role play a character in a video game. I described dnd to my sister as different from video games because you could create any character and play them however you want. It would be interesting to take my mindset about my dnd characters and translate that to my gaming experience.

Personally, I have a real issue in how RPGs are designed when it comes to making ‘the right decision’, and it’s to do with their binary concept of success and failure. The idea that skill checks have a binary pass/fail result, that it is immediately obvious whether you’ve passed or failed an action, and that you can get a ‘good ending’ or a ‘bad ending’. I’d love to play more games without objectively ‘good’ or ‘bad’ outcomes, just different outcomes. It’s why the developers who shout the loudest about their games’ morality systems have the worst understanding of making interesting moral choices for the player-character (eg. Telltale, Peter Molyneux, David Cage).