The MAJOR Problem with KEMPER, TONEX in 2025 - Choosing AXE FX and HELIX over Kemper Or Quad Cortex?

The solution to your “major problem” has essentially been solved by Neural DSP with their “models,” by use of their hardware “TINA,” a lot of interpolation, and a slick user interface.

ToneX helped me capture the tone of my amp in my room and turn it into a virtual plugin thats on my computer anytime I wanna record. I have a hx stomp and the effects are great, my Headrush Prime does more than both, but I want to hear that realistic sound of capturing. So my Stomp and a Katana don't get used a lot. Models still sound a little dull to me but fine in a mix, good enough to record with. Need a Helix with both, I think or Axe Fx cause of their level of FX. But really the ToneX has enough FX for me.

Your bassist looks like Tony Levin. 😁

I captured all my amps with was home. I mostly use the Ceritone capture that turned out best. There are some lone specials on this hip that I plan on capturing next.

I dove into modeling in 2009 when I bought an Eleven Rack for my Rush tribute. It worked great for me for 15 years while I used my tube amps for all my other gigs. I’m 58 now and my back issues forced me to have to get back into the modeling world. (I sold my Eleven Rack 2 years ago). I recently bought the NUX Trident. It sounds fantastic and is very tactile for us amp users. Plus, I didn’t want to spend a ton of money on a whole, new rig.

If we all use a Marshall we’re all going to sound the same!

I have been using a fractal for the last 3 years. The tone of the Fenders and Voxes always bothered me, like they sound sterile, plus the endless tweaking . This dissatisfaction forced me to consider other solutions like the Kemper. I bought the Kemper Player and I am playing with it since this very. Saturday. The dynamics of the Fenders for instance blew my mind. I will keep my Axe Fx III though

Wow! Tony Levin is unbelievable.

I've tried my fair share of amps, guitars, pedals, modellers, and profilers. It was worth it, since you really have to experience this stuff. Profilers and modellers both have strengths and weaknesses. The danger they face now, is similar to what happened with keyboards in the 80's. The Roland D-50 and the Yamaha DX7 default patches were all over the charts. Just like then, people will grow weary of them, and move on.

Really helpful ideas. I like how you explain the importance of learning to build tones and understanding the inputs that make tone. I have enjoyed some of your videos, where you go through the HX stomp and teach how to build a preset. Super useful!

Folks show up for a wedding and end up seeing the best guitar player alive today. I hope you are charging accordingly.

I don't sound like JNC even with the JNC preset packs and the JNC licks I NEED.

Thanks John, I follow you all the time - when you start your videos, you usually play a bit before you start your discussion.... when you go to lead, you have this compressed sound that is what I have been trying to achieve (an Eric Johnson sound).... could you please tell me what are you using ....?

I agree. I am a helix user but have a robes one and recevtky got a used bossgt1000core for a used price as a backup. I was going to run the tonex into the boss for the amps but it takes ages to find something I like and I can’t modify it enough. I’ve found just running the boss (which is way more faff than helix but dies sound good) is less hassle and more satisfying.

Sold my Quad Cortex today and didnt feel like I missed out on anything thanks to NAM.

NAM can do "parametric" models if theyre programmed correctly. I think ML Soundlab just made a NAM based amp suite. Full-on knobs and the whole normal amp suite deal. NAM is the future, for sure. People just need to learn how to implement it (like Korg/Darglass with their new floor modeler). I could see further maturity and ease of producing these "knob" NAMs where even guys at home can make them. We just need someone to make an easy-trainer (it'll happen). Then eventually, all pedal boards supporting NAM files like they do IR files.

If you don’t have a clear idea of tone YOU want or need beforehand, no matter which tech you use you won’t have ‘good tone’.

I am on both sides of this argument... when I was first switching from HX to Kemper, the thought of using someone else's profiles to play out felt like I'd be wearing someone else's underwear. But I didn't feel that way when I used other people's presets for HX (maybe I would if I switched back).
... now that I've been using the kemper a couple years, my own profiles, I don't think I could ever get away. The sound is better, but I would be happy with the HX tones. It's the ui. It's so perfect. It's the only thing that makes me feel like I'm not using a computer (ua pedals are just a good).
... the Kemper UI isn't "dated", it's timeless.

I definitely know what you mean about some gear being better for learning about parameters. The problem with the Kemper is that if you make your profile well, you don't have to tweak anything. And it's difficult to screw it up, unlike tonex.

I play exclusively in my home office on guitar and bass. I got a Kemper Stage when it came out. It solved my GAS for guitar and bass stuff. Now, instead of wondering what different amps and cabs sound like, I spend maybe $50 to find out, and now after maybe a few hundred in profile purchases, I have a few dozen bookmarked that I really enjoy. IMO if you don’t know exactly what you want but want to try a bunch of “good” tones, the profilers are like paying for presets, except the presets are based on legendary gear and do a really good job approximating those without sounding cheesy. A lot of the tones also work super well in mixes vs just listening to them alone, and being able to jam along to tracks I like with sometimes specific per-track profiles has been really nice.

modeling>profiles... just got an axefx3 and have had all the major units... i have sold the gt1000, hx, kemper, HR, and QC. . wont sell my TMP because when it comes to affordable units with great sounds and the best overall user experience, why would I? but 2 weeks with an Axe fx and I see why the pros use them.

Playing live events such as weddings etc., you are not going to hear much of a difference between a profiler, tube amp, modeler or SS amp. The acoustics in those situations are generally horrible and the PA will not usually be that great. I think the differences will generally show up either in a recording or in a room in which you are very familiar with.

Modelling is NOT superior to kemper profiles..as they also have liquid profiling... Best of both worlds.. With the Kemper MkII, it will likely have accuracy beyond NAM...when the new software update hits. Also TOUCHSCREENS are not reliable..long term. I would rather a Bluetooth connected tablet app...any day of the week.

Dude thanks so much for fielding my email! I hope HW over at ToneJunkie does too. It'd be neat to hear the contrast. But yeah, I think the way you put it into two camps resonates with me! I think you're right to call out skeuomorphism as a primary component of what's resonating to me — I think a modeler should feel like using the real thing (pedal, amp, etc.) as much as it can. Short of a 3D screen on the unit, I think skeuomorphism and physical knobs is a great step forward that others should follow.

I’m a Kemper user but also I’ve owned a lot of amps over my 20+ years of playing. on top of that I was a backline tech for an audio company so I literally had a giant room full of amps, I loved some plugins I had and the helix stuff was cool . but when I played Kemper it was the first time I felt that digital really felt and sounded like a real amp. I own a player and a stage absolutely love them.

A “model” is a code writers interpretation of what a particular piece of gear sounds like. Profiles, and captures, and models are all editable. Do you just plug into an amp or pedal and not turn the knobs???? Of course not. You turn the damn knobs until you get what you like. A given profile is just a setting in time. EDIT IT!!! Getting “your tone” is not the gear! It’s in your hands. Gear is just a tool for delivery. You’re looking too deep into it. Edit and turn knobs. This entire viewpoint you’re offering in this video makes no sense at all. From the use standpoint, modeling vs capturing is exactly the same.

Helix guy here. Have played and owned several modelers and profilers... and while I prefer modelers, I admit profilers have a place in my playing and gear collection as they sound just as great. But the reality I don't have tons of money to own and try all the amps I would love until I find the one, and here is where, regardless of a profiler or modeler, come in.. you get to have a choice to try and own those tones for a fraction of the price of the real thing.
My advice to whatever is you end up getting.. find an amp you like, and a cab you like, and make it your own... and personally, for that, I think modelers are better, as it really lets you get exactly what you are after

Why would you waste resources on a screen when you can connect with a IPad getting the most advanced touchscreen on the market, it’s definitely the way to go in my opinion.

my volunteer at church uses my Kemper performance... the same exact one... and while I do hear similarities... He makes it sounds completely different... different touch and feel!!

With modeling, you are bound to what the models offer, but can use those to full extend.
With capture you can have as much captures, also of amps not existing now, as you want.

If you look at the Kemper you still have lots of dials you can use to modify, even if not as many as on a modeler.

With liquid profiling and the drive effects from kemper, most of your arguments seem already outdated to me.

I actually hate touch screens, as I can use the Kemper knobs blindly and I live turning knobs. But there exists a touch interface on your phone, if you want.

But I fully agree, a software to combine captures of amps/cabs together would be a great addition.

With HX I do absolutely not like the interface. You have them in the PC, you have them on the stomp. But not the same ones, you need to copy and they sound absolutely different.

If the Kemper MK2 gets interesting is mainly dependend on conversion ability of the captures and if the new captures are really better.

Amp in the room never sounds the same - modellers and profilers have a mic/preamps/desk in the chain and they colour the tone.

I’ve just bought..well..got one Chinese device with choptones captures/presets, whatever it is. I love 35 out of 40 presets. Don’t feel any need to fiddle with it. They sell it for 50 Eur or so, and the hardware quality is decent too, just one out, etc… . I mean it’s a competitive market today

Valetone GP5 is a modeler in a ToneX One size for $100; it loads NAM files into it's propriety too and you could hybrid it with your Helix Stomp. You NAM profile your Amp tones or and the "gist" in your video, audition captures which is hit and miss on ToneHunt. The down side is the 48k 24 bit res of the GP5 and if will sound as good as a Helix?

Hey, I've been watching a lot of debate stuff, so I might be picking it apart a bit. But I come in peace. They're not MY tones? Well they are NOW. In my experience, I've occasionally tried more than one capture of the same amp to see if I liked it better, only to have them be nearly identical, from different sources. This has happened more than once. And by the time that signal has gone through the rest of the processing in my chain, it's mine all the more. Next point, I confess my experience with the world of amps is also quite low. If I believe that this is the industry leading standard (Tonex in this case) then I am to rely on their word that we ARE getting the authentic amp tones. If that's true, then we just un-rarified the Dumble. Everyone has a shot at playing a digital snapshot of stuff they've only dreamed of. (Vs the actual amp, you don't get the bright caps, and half watt switches, resonance knob, tube mix ala Egnater, but we're comparing to modelers) So it's not a counter point per se, but a "lest we forget".

Nobody should buy anything that's ready-made, they all sound the same!!11 I wound my own pickups from ore that I mined myself. Pfff playing any non custom amp is basically the same as playing a preset on a zoom 505. ;)

Tone junky profiles his amp collection and sells those profile packs.

I think you are spot on with regards to a pretty gui for captures! Thats gotta be some intensive work flow there to capture every available knob position!

I'm team modeler all day. My band mates use QCs with profiles. When they need to adjust their EQs it never sounds right.

Sounding the same using the same profiles, flys in the face of many artists (Jerry Cantrell comes to mind) where they say EVH sounds just like EVH plugged into my (Cantrell’s) rig, and I sounded like me when he let me play through his rig.
That’s a lot of what I honestly notice, no matter what profile or parameter (ToneX or Fractal) I use, after about 5 minuets I end up sounding like me.
I think that’s why a lot of us “tone chase” because we tend to want to sound like what we don’t sound like, and that’s pretty hard to do. You can improve your tone (brighter or darker) but I’m not sure you can really “change” your tone very drastically considering most of it is in your hands.

I started playing around 1990 at the very end of the giant rack era, and have gone through all the various stages of digital/analog/tube/etc gear since then. What I've learned is that we all have a few tones we like, and regardless of what we buy, we're going to make it sound like those few things. So at the end of the day a nice amp and a few pedals will give you everything. Or just a SansAmap type fly rig into a powered speaker.

But gear is fun, and I see no end in sight :)

I like the flexibility of modelers and the convenience of accurate captures. The studio rat in me likes a UI that provides a virtual experience of the real hardware, even if it's hardware I haven't used before. But I'm a tweaker who likes nudging knobs, moving mics, and changing cable/signal flow. That's why I keep going back to Helix, even though I have access to practically everything. Still, a voice-controlled AI guitar tech would be sweet. "Hey, Helix 2, give me a lead tone like in Comfortably Numb set up for my humbuckers..."

I would like to think that the default patches on a pedal or Katana amp would sound good. Unfortunately, no. Maybe they sound good to someone, but not me. So I need to go into tweaking mode which takes entirely too long.

Helix is still the best experience!

My captures are so much better than the profiles. You guys have so much distortion going on that you can't tell. Can't tell what amp model you are playing or what guitar. My amps are non master volume amps. I can get clean tones on a lot of them and of course if I want to I can turn up to shred or kick on a drive. I live in that lost space between clean and raunchy.

The variations of quality in captures that annoys me. You have an amp in mind you want to have a nice capture of, you go to the tone cloud and you have to try TONS of captures, dial them in again and again to find the best. Very time consuming and annoying process. If you even spend money on top rated captures and still not satisfied with the tones you are getting and start to think the issue is you?! Suddenly UA pedals make sense (the dream is such a great representation of the deluxe reverb) just add your fav gain pedal and you save yourself the headache.

I have a Helix Floor for 6 years now, I used to turn and tweek so much on it, for me it got just boring and feels like a burden. I bought a Nano Cortex, I just download a good profile and and that's it. Maybe it is just a phase, but right now I don't have the nerve to dial up a good tone in Helix again. The nano feels so much easier.

U must check the Valeton GP5. There's a high chance that it may become the pedal of the year.