I Talked With @saintontas About ZZZ

Great job kettei. You were less of a jackass and I'm actually impressed, both you and saint.

I dont now why the escoffier is gooner bait made me so mad you cannot say that when wuwa has shorekeeper zani camellya and cantarella cmon

recommend you don't interact with wild dogs like that bro they literally bark at anything they see

Do we really need the opinion of a tourist, who's playstyle scream "skill issue" all over the place? 😂😂😂

I love wuwa and play ZZZ too.
Let me be clear and you can check this yourself : Saintontas has a huge double standard regarding this.

My main issue with the discussion on HP inflation is people ignore the line we should balance for. In my opinion the bottom AND top 10% shouldn't really be balanced around. If you want Shiyu and DA to be super easy and be clearable without putting minimal effort or looking for information on build/stats/anything then the endgame isn't for you to a degree. It's like expecting to do a raid in a MMO and not bothering to look at a boss guide or stat priority for your class/spec then being upset when you don't succeed.

Prime rage-bait. Sorry, did not enjoy the video.

Not wanting to learn the game or play the game a little more to clear the end game content is wild sorry we don’t have an auto mode in zzz, surprised you dint crack Kettei keep doing what you do because you are helping people to get better and having fun doing it and period you don’t have to play perfect we all make mistakes and even if your grind it out it won’t take 30 hours learn how to use the characters and pop off with them lol.

You did good brodie. You’re super level headed and real we love you for that. 👍

We gotta stop giving this guy attention and start ignoring him man. He's just here to argue that nothing is the fault of bad players.

Wuwa players need to get on Saintontas ass because he generates so much animosity towards the game by constantly bringing it into bad faith conversations in other game communities. His misinformed fearmongering attempts will be the only point of reference so many people outside of Wuwa will have for the game because he's so obnoxiously loud.

Saint cuz Go ChoakOnIt. Grifter Scum.

I get where Saint is coming from yeah, HP inflation is definitely present, and it’s been getting worse with each patch. But what I don’t get is why he talks like the game will go down the same path like what happened with HSR. Zzz is a different game, and we honestly won’t know how things turn out until 2.0 drops.

Also, I really doubt that he doesn’t have enough time to put into the game. We all know how gacha games work. They take time. You’ve got to farm for materials, build your team, and more than anything, know how to actually use your characters. Even if you have a strong team, if you don’t know how to play them well, you’re not going to clear content. And it doesn’t take 10 hours to get better on an agent, the people that were chosen as examples to show that they can still clear using a 1.0 agent. I’m done yapping, much love to you ketteiTheKing

I think having disagreements of HP inflation is better than having no disagreements. Kind of like a canary in the coal mine thing. Its like on one hand, if the disagreements amount to nothing and it ends up being fine and it's a false alarm, then everyone can go on their way. On the other hand, if it actually is a problem, then it's a good thing that it's being discussed early.

Saintotas should never ever be allowed near game design

Its actually really funny, after hearing what saintontas has to say in a calm a collected and rational manner, it made me hate him more. I found it humorous that he called anyone who actually likes to play and learn the systems of a game a "sweat," as if there is anything wrong with enjoying the games you play, like I though we were all gamers, like we enjoying playing the game? Also found it cute how much he's attached to the term "anti consumer." If he was so concerned with anti-consumerism, i don't think he should be streaming any gacha game, since all gachas are anti consumer in their nature. Though maybe his definition of anti consumer is different to mine, since every time he mentioned it he talked about how long something should take. I guess in his eyes, Elden Ring is anti consumer because you shouldn't be able to lose the the tree sentinel or Morgot because losing waists time, and time waist is anti consumer, its just stupid. Its charming how hung up he is on "elitism this" and "elitism that" when he has the gall to call people who actually like playing the game "sweaty basement dwellers" like having fun playing zzz is beneath him, that kind of high and mighty attitude seems pretty elitist to me.

Man, hearing throughout the conversation my eyebrows ache from furrowing to much and the amount of "What?" and "huh?" almost reach three digits. All I'm saying is that saint's arguments are easily countered and is a pain to listen but kudos to you my man for being a good listener.

i have only the w engine of miyabi all my S chars are M0, i can 3 star every deadly assault, and do S tier shiyus, I am by no means a good player whatsoever, the whole hp inflation and powercreep debate is just bogus.

Is this a cope that he did well in the discussion?

I feel he did great at the beginning establishing rapport, but once Saint started with super clown takes of 'if the dev decides to make the player engage more with the game it's consumer unfriendly' I think that Kettei really should've called him out. The whole point of playing the game is to play it, giving people endgame content to engage with is the point of any video game lol.

It is really weird to hear him saing, that if you need to git gud in ZZZ, it is a really bad thing, but he was trashing people for skill issue, because they can't clear middle tower with Jian 1.0 team. This is so double standads. Seems like he just want to shit on the game, using, as he thinks, really smart rguments.

So he says that ZZZ's endgame is significantly more difficult than WW's, ZZZ being known to be openly very friendly to F2P agents, having the ability to claim all your usual limited currencies even with the standard three characters you start with. I have nothing but respect for WW but this is not a measure of how hard ZZZ's content is, it unintentionally mocks WW's content. Like if I said "I'm having trouble sparring with this armature boxer, in comparison it's much harder than beating children in the ring." then I don't think anyone is gonna put that as a mark of how good that boxer is.

This is the funniest thumbnail ive ever seen, its just "WE TALKED." like it feels like yall are breaking up or fixing your relationship or sum

We need more collaborations like this to bring more views to both games.

Wuthering Waves and Zenless fans need to realise they aint so different so they should make up and kiss and realise both games are great. After that they should team up and shill for both games while attack HSR for being such a dogshit game 👹🫠

WW have a limited event time frame!! So player friendly! not someone living on a basement, i can't get it! (Still casually playing ww though)

ZZZ=/=HSR stop comparing two different gamestyle, its on different devs!!, I get the point of Tontas HP inflation for the future. But cmon man every gacha will be anti consumer and with zzz opening flop and being easy on the end content with bad take on the tv mode that i remembered sleeping on it.

HP inflation is also happening on ww not just zzz. But i remembered before miyabi patch we dont have decibel/ultimate on every character and it was easy to play the end content.

On ZZZ
Sometimes reading the description of characters skill and boss description is the key to clear the content. It is a puzzle first then try it on the boss. Did not clear? Change your available item/disk drive, use diffirent weapon/w-engine (i did not know lycon work well with the steam oven) 1disk is being used by different agent get another disk like that. Is it better? Change it out but don't delete the old one, 1 disk has +3 on def/hp hold on to it keep farming on it.

Plan your daily grind. Every char runs on 15days. Did you win that char? No/skip? Build your character that your using or will be using, lvl up, increase them skill, farm up missing drive disk that is the only key.

We have 240 battery everyday use it! It only takes 5-10 min to use it up!

"Please keep all stale" man

You did great kettei for trying so hard to be calm as possible 😭 this guy is so ugh..

can’t believe bro actually managed to sit through that entire call listening to such obnoxious noise :D saint js needs to shut tf up honestly

coming from both game, i think wuwa is a tad harder cuz their boss could one tap u compare to zzz. thats it

I just think it's funny how chill and relaxing the zzz community was until tectone and saint start trying to drama farm it.
I really don't think there was any real explosion of drama until they do it.
saint at the start of the video: 'I think it's disingenuous when CC's blame the player if they can't clear end game.
Also saint later while you explain how you fixing builds helped people: 'yeah they were idiots and if they still couldn't beat the end Game they're just bad at the game.'
Trying to negate his clears with the fixed accounts by saying you play this game for a living was funny even though you shut it down with the follow-ups with those people still clear the next cycles without you.

um i just started taking zzz a little more seriously and im doing ok at my pace secondly are we just assuming that people would never get better artifacts for there characters ever in the future hour and ten min mark. also what happens when a character release and people wanna show case it how are going to do so when the bosses or the end game get one shotted before you even start your rotation like bro what

You did a good job keeping your cool but I think you should have pushed into his points it felt like he was the driver and you couldn’t say anything but if this happened again keep calm and don’t let him shotgun points at you

for me i think if end game is too easy, then the game will also die with no challange to do, sweaty players in my opinion is players that handycap themselves, like only A rank with no S rank w-engine. not optimized team comp to prove something.
HP inflation is real, but doesnt mean its bad, its how much is it for it to be bad.

I do agree with saint saying the hp inflation itself is a problem but goddamn some of his points were just dogshit

Every time you make a good point he references something else or his twisted idea of how things will change in then future

Are we forgetting that end game content is supposed to be challenging? Endgame more often than not is content that the majority of players won't even see, much less dabble in, and even less clear completely. Which is likely the reason you need 6 out of 9 stars in Deadly Assault to get all the polychromes Deadly Assault offers. Getting 9 stars gets you some buildings resources that most people that usual get 9 stars most likely already have an abundance of. Critical Node of Shiyu Defense is different because there are polychromes for S rank completion and even then most are probably missing out on 160 polychromes or less. At that point it's something you decide if you think that 1 pull is worth getting better

I'm not going to say much on Saint because he didn't want to have a conversation but wanted to push his belief and it showed the longer it went on, with the end just being toxic likely as bait to get Kettei to bite and break his promise. Props on him for sticking to his promise

I'm only 25 minutes into this video, and this snowman has already pissed me off. Kettei, you're a saint for not crashing out on him. I can tell this guy does NOT play this game, or he plays like 1 hour every 2 weeks he did not know what he was talking about.

since when was playing well and getting better at the game sweaty?? you get rewarded for playing well, its common basic game achievements. its not a challenge if we're ALWAYS clearing the shiyu :\

Can I get a timestamp for when the discussion gets heated?

(IMPORTANT):

Me and Saint agreed to not make this a debate or war at all, so I kept my promise of being chill the entire time. There will be many of you saying I was too passive when i was just keep my promise of being chill. It was a discussion not a debate, nothing else nothing more.