Will Vintage Digital Synths Become a Thing?

I think they already have. JD990 and Wavestation XT are worth more now than what they sold for new.

They are already are going up! Eventually the old stock will thin out and people realize that each hardware synth has a sound shaped by both the circuitry and the interface. Software synths can get you very close to the original sounds. They can even surpass some of the limitations of various FM synths and sound better in some ways, however sometimes there is just an elusive ghost that lives in the old machines. A little bit of internal distortion here and a little bit of EQ coloration there all add up to a different sound than what is completely generated inside of a computer. Maybe that is why some artists take there entire finished tracks and run them through tube gear to liven up the sound of the overall mix. I was watching a video by ATB where he showed exactly that process through a tube amp and an outboard BBE Sonic Maximizer.

I have that Roland D 05 module that you spoke up. It sounds great and totally captures the essence of the Roland D50. I actually think it sounds better than the “virtual analog” machines like the Juno, Moog and Jupiter clones that Roland released.

Hardware synths may have higher quality DACs than what's available today, or the opamp design may add tonal characteristics that VSTs can't duplicate. Kurzweil K2x was shipping with 2 ad1864 18bit D/A converters with 32 bit internal processing this tracks if you consider one channel was taking a 32bit digital word and then using 18bit x2 overlapping and offset to output virtual 36bit pre converted resolution 108db range 0.002THD per channel raw before being sent to individual output amplifiers. It was the no compromises design that gave it a unique sound. At the end of the day, when the VST is being heard, what is the D/A conversion quality and op amp?

They are already a thing, for quite some time. Main reason: build quality and aesthetics. In 2050 digital synths from the eighties will still work when the last CS-80 or Jupiter has died from analog circuitry rot and spare part extinction (they were already rare at conception), and when cheap chinese (retro) synths are recycled because of crap quality. They will be the last men standing, quite handsome ones too. Don't bother about price increase and possible value. They are just nice to have and use!
Oh, dress tip: never shall anybody wear button-down collars, as in NEVER. Quite remarkable you wear able to find a casual short sleeve shirt with it! And do some ironing!

I'd like an Ensoniq ESQ-1 or SQ-80. But a good conditioned Yamaha DX-7 would be wonderful too.

Fun vid Zack. I love my 1983 DX7 .. don’t mind if the asking/selling price stays the same. My analogs have gone up in price insanely. Should’ve held onto my old collection back in the day.

Jt

I think so, me personally, I am more interested in old digital synths right now than old analog ones. With the current new selection of analog synthesizers available, there is no real need to acquire old analog gear unless you really want to. But, with that said, the old digital synths like Dx7s, K4s, D-50, Ensoniqs, wavestations, and even Waldorfs are more interesting, or at least as interesting as old analog synthesizers. Even some of the V/A stuff like Nords, Prophecy’s, abd the like.

Prices are already going up for most digital synths of the late 80s and early 90s.

as stated b4 i love your philosophical videos, some digital synths will become classics ALL Ensoniq stuff is bound to appreciate, early low fi digital that runs at 12bit 32Khz that its hard to replicate on a VST will go up too, fully loaded 90's workstations like a fully expanded roland XP/50/60/80, Fully loaded Korg trinity's with HD and sample RAM, base ones will slowly go down in price, odd synthesys machines like the fizmo, SY77, wavestation , K5000, will also go up.

There are a few digitals that will matter, things like MachineDrum, XTk, virus, fizmo, FS1R, and a few others. Most others are junk that are not that great though.

IMO, if industrial infrastructure continues on a course of global disposable repeat design, it is a forgone conclusion that most older synths will become expensive collectables. Basically anything from the golden age of Japanese electronics. Already there is a very noticeable difference in design innovation/build quality comparing some vintage digital synths to modern ones. I will mention, there is a bit of a misnomer about the old digital technology being lower quality. Sometimes yes BUT not always. If you dig around and get to know exactly how these things worked/were designed/built, you will find a lot of the old tech was actually on par and sometimes better than some modern designs. A startling example was when I found, there were some digital converters in 90s gear, that are STILL to this day unmatched. Sounds counter intuitive but when you factor in: The current day extreme obsession with price points/profit margins. The stark difference between golden age Japanese industry and modern chinese industry. It becomes clear, progress isn't always linear.

I was lucky enough to find / buy those analog gems back in the day. I actually brought one from Alamo music, I still have the shipping box however, i can't remember which one is was. i believe it was a prophet. I was lucky enough to find JP-8, 106, JVs, D50, SH1, OB-8, Matrix 12, Prophet 5R3, 600, Remote, T8, Yamaha CS-60, CS80, CP70, Rhodes Mark I, II, II, . The layout of these keys are wonderful (outside of the matrix mod of the 12).

I think the digital world is easily replicated (by nature) in software, so beyond the tactile interface, we get those sounds (sans the freq interference of old analog outputs and pots). So it hard to image a DX7 going the way of the JP-8. Thanks

I'd love to see you dive into the Kawai K5000S. I have one but barely understand it, and tutorials on it are scarce. It's a fairly unique sounding synth imho.

Very interesting topic! I believe rareness and nostalgia are the far more relevant factors as opposed to the analog vs. digital debate. We are still not seeing too many all digital vintage synths fetching crazy prices but many eight- twelve- and even classic 16 bit samplers, hybrid synths like the Prophet VS and classic digital drum machines like the Linndrum or the DMX are well on the way to absurdity... Get em while you can! 😉

The only vintage antique lol synth I have is the EMU Proteus 1 from 89. Got one for 100.00 last Aug. it will be 1,000 in 10 years. It's a good romper, emu 3 sounds in it. Plus, it's a good for making pads and bells. I'm speculating of course , tongue in cheek

Would be interesting to expand on this in relation to DCO analogs. Examples being the oberheim matrix 6 that is actually decently priced for what it is

10 years ago I bought a JD-800 for 500 €
I can’t believe my eyes what it cost today….
And yes, it’s digital but rare….

Already has happend .... try buying a DX1 or a Synclavier ......D50's and paticularly M1's in Mint condition are selling well

This guy is good at what he does and he makes videos that we want to watch.

Soon you'll be able to get a Kodamo EssenceFM for almost the same price as a used DX7

this is really seriously a dumb question

Personally, I love the authentic sound of early digital synths. Much like 12bit sampling, it's something that emulation just can't seem to figure out yet. Big ups the to Casio CZ

Another thing you didn't mention is that while most analog classics have highly desirable tactile interfaces, most digital synths have fiddly interfaces that can be greatly improved with modern software. iM1 on the iPad or the DX7 emulator Dexed both give you vastly improved interfaces over the originals.

Unlikely it wil be as big as analog, for the simple reason that there are fewer and fewer bands that use the same synths onstage. ModX, Fantom, Virus, still, but anything later? I'd be surprised.

Saw some Akai S612 over 1000.-, paid for mine 250.- in 2016.The analog filter there adds to the overpricing I assume, but the one knob per functions here is a big plus.

As far as Roland Digital, there were a few odd products released. JD800 and JD990, the VSynth. And possibly Fantom G. They’re all relatively low produced and 20 years later the magic and oddity, departure in sound or feature implementation turned out to lend a uniqueness from the main product line up during the time of release.

Yes. Waldorf q good example

Owning a Yamaha SY77, there is definitely something to be said for the ‘dusty’ quality of the sounds, due to bitrate, circuitry etc.
I think Arturia come very close with their DX7 emulation but the instantenous feel of having an instrument (like you touch on in this video) always will be a different thing! The SY77 can do weird custom tunings like just intonation, stuff that’s actually a hassle to make in a DAW, plus other small idiosyncrasies and weird sample coloration. Can it be emulated? Probably, but the experience of it maybe not so much. It’s both a search for sound s AND an experience after all

I keep eyeing the CZ phase distortion synths. There's an iPad editor and no modern version (aside from Arturia's very good emulation) - I could have two or three new alternatives to a DX7 but there's no CZ101 out there.

Perceived Value = Desirability x Scarcity x Condition
The JV-1080 is desirable but it's not rare.
The JD-800 and JD-990 are much more rare and rising in value. (Though the JD-800 has the red glue issue that must be addressed.) I believe that a good condition Wavestation AD may fetch a pretty penny someday, but I doubt that an M1 in similar condition will. There are just SO MANY of them out there. Similarly, a Waldorf Blofeld won't get much love in 20 years. But in 20 years a Waldorf Wave will be a different story. Rarity will play a key factor in perceived value.

Most of them suck!!

They already are.

IT WOULD BE NICE TO SEE ARTURIA BRINGING BACK TO LIFE THESE DIGITAL SYNTHS

Things to think about, thanks Zach!

I think some but not all vintage digital synths will go up in value. Like you pointed out ultra rare and expensive digital synths like Fairlight CMI or synclavier have always been expensive on the used market because they are ultra exclusive and have never been accessible to the general public. But digital synths like the Roland JP-8000 or the Access Virus TI that can still be bought new today are really expensive on the used market even today. But contrary to analog synths that have all gone up in value just for being analog, only the digital synths like the JP-8000 that can be identified as being iconic to an era or a specific music genre will go up in value. Also we have to consider the number of units that were manufactured, for example the DX7 and Korg M1 are iconic to an era and they will certainly be popular to people into late 80s early 90s music but due to the amount of units that were produced they will remain affordable for several decades. So if I was some sort of speculator in the field of vintage synths, I would check which synths were used in popular music of late 80s and 90s and buy those that have not been produced in large quantities. Like you said nostalgia is a very powerful feeling. In the next decade people who were teenagers or young adults in the 90 who at the time couldn’t afford those instruments will be in their fifties and this is the age where nostalgia hits hard.

The value of vintage digital will inevitably rise in value and already has. Will a DX7 ever be on par with a JP-8 value wise, I don't think so.

However, as others have mentioned, much of Yamaha, Roland, Ensoniq, etc. gear produced of the time used custom ICs for which there is often literally ZERO information about available publicly because it is intellectual property. The data sheets and schematics for those chips are almost certainly never going to become available either. This makes exact modelling extremely difficult, except by the original manufacturer.

One thing I don't hear mentioned as much is how much producing high quality music, as a hobby, is possible today. It's not just playing a recorder in your bedroom anymore. With time, skill and some experience, 13 year old with an iPad can make a very convincing track. You have a whole new generation of young people exposed to making music (and its history)... I believe more than ever before. So even though these instruments were more widely produced, as the analog pinnacles reach unobtainium level prices, where else does this large new consumer base turn if one craves that vintage hardware?

Nostalgia!!!

I think you’re not accounting for changes in musical tastes ( which we pretty much can’t predict)- a big factor in analogues going out of fashion & then back in was 1) change in pop music from guitar to synths 2) demand for fancy/studio glossy digital sound not related to traditional instruments (I’ll call it the Enya effect)-3) most important ; widespread appeal of what we now call EDM. Analogue was the “go to” equipment for the last musical change. While I personally own & love a few of the 00s digital, as you mention fact is they are pretty easy to duplicate in software - eg D-05 v the D-50.

For instruments that aren’t unique, the price will, over time, rise to approximate the cost of restoring a non operational unit to operational status.

I love your philosophical videos.
Vintage digital is as cool as analogue. Of course prices will go up... Mirages, Emaxes, DX5, etc

Ofcourse!!! 1)Nostalgia 2)Its nice to touch kassies & knopjes 3) The primitive microelectronica inside = sounding primitive and thats nice 4) The looks = its very nice to have a piece of gear on your desk, to look at and be denon about it 5)The price will go up becourse the components inside will die while your playing on it (heej wat is dat nu, komt daar nou een rookwolkje uit mijn TX81Z"?) and there for every year a working M1 will be more rare. These are my thoughts. Thanx for your content :-)

Yes
Because collectors need them 😊🎹🎶