Trackmania's Confusing New Policy

Wow, it's unacceptable. So they care about politics, and not actual game. They refuse to put close to zero effort to write clear rules = couple lines of text, but have no problem with sending threats to people. WHAT. Right to jail. Maaan ihmo they should hear from community about it, something like that can't stand

lmao ubisoft really doesnt appreciate their content creator

Teseus

any controllers are 3rd party devices !!! ban all controllers and just leave keyboard only behind. And see how many new records are made !!!!!!

Short version: you aren't allowed to make the game better.

I dont think its a unfair advantage.
Why? because everyone have access to this equipment. And if they want a "Fair" "linear" match for everyone, they just can change the settings for steering.
A 10€ Keyboard, hasnt the option to compete against an Xbox Controller.(specially the Elite). Same with Steering wheel.
So probably Steering wheel user (Granady) has the option to steer everytime 90% when he Steer 90°C. And he can Adjust this. SO he has to Steer 180°C for full 100% steer right or left, but 80°C is 80% steering angle. (Every race driver to this, for there steering wheel ... called progressive steering angle)
A Controller player, can do this in his BASIC WINDOWS SETTINGS. (So is it a 3rd party member program, when you change it in windows, what you need to use the controller?)
But the Keyboard player with a 10€ Keyboard and even me with a Corsair K100 Platinum for over (200€) cant do this.

So why i´m say Nadeo is talking shit. And its dumb.
Because if they want that everyone steers the same, they just put it 0 and 100. not the option to steer 40/20/74 or 39. BECAUSE THIS WOULD BE FAIR FOR EVERYONE.
But to say, hey you have better equipment what you can adjust, thats unfair to others ... is simply bullshit.
So because i have a 2000€ PC and a 1000€ monitor with 400hz i have a big benifit to a player with a 250€ pc with a 60hz Monitor. But thats not Unfair ...

And thats just the simple fact.
If a software give you the oppertunity in your "Professionell product", they just cant say no, when on other products its allowed. (Like Steering Wheel) No flame against Granady, im actually a Fan of him, but its shit that you get a warning for it.

They won’t clarify rules. They want to be able to apply vague rules to anyone they find to be a problem for them publicly. This is companies M.O. thats why end user licenses exist so they can take a way your product that you payed for if you so something that publicly makes them look bad! Thats why they threatened the player that found the exploit it made their product look bad so the company will silence him by threatening to take away their ability to enjoy the game that they payed for effectively stealing from them something they should now own or attack them legally and ruin their life! Companies should not have the ability they do to go after individuals legally they have more power and resource than just about anything else on the planet and the impunity to use and apply that power and resource wherever and on whoever they so choose its not right! The power imbalance is too much for average people to over come to prover their case. If theres a cheating ring or group going after their servers and attacking privacy of players then have at them and server access is a privilege not a right its a hand shake between all players and the company that should say “we the players will act in a safe and fair manner to maintain an enjoyable play space for all” and the company should say in response “we will maintain this safe fair and enjoyable play space for those that choose to use it and choose to do their part in not cheating/hacking”! Third party hacking tools/cheat engines are 100 not ok to use in games that have a competitive element and can artificially improve a players score/skill like aim bot or submitting a TAS as your own run. But Wirtual’s actions here can be interpreted as within the companies rules these are inbuilt setting and programs made for the improvement of his periphery of choice not a third party tool to artificially enhance his performance he made his settings and tools that were made with this program and setting in mind work better and more comfortably for him and was only punished because he was vocal about it if he hadn’t said anything nobody at the company would be able to know anything was changed or be able to prove it ether! Anti consumer behavior like this in the gaming industry is unhealthy for players and companies alike it diminishes trust and causes animosity. All this not even mentioning accessibility for disabled players who also want to be able to compete on the same playing feild as fully able players a setting like the one Wirtual used can be a core tool to help these plays chosen periphery work most optimally for their specific case will they be punished for dialing in their settings to allow them to perform at their best?

I may not play Trackmania but I've watched some of your previous videos about the game and they're well made and enjoyable.

I think you're right to point all of this out. It highlights a big issue of how to interpret rules and coc/tos as well as a potential big scandal in how they're handling streamers and other popular players going out of their way and showing what they're doing. A person should not be given a warning or ban for intentionally highlighting a big issue with the rules being vague, they shouldn't be punished for bringing loopholes to light since that's the whole reason why rules are rewritten!

I admire your love for this game and community, going this far to make sure that it's fair for everyone and just making sure that the community is on equal footing in how the rules of the game are interpreted to make sure that there's no, as Nadeo so helpfully put it, unfair advantage by the latest cutting-edge tech.

sadly corporations have slowly turned me towards a chaotic good mindset... if you bring up the issue they'll attack you for it, and they'll likely be too burying it to even solve it. so fuck them, as a user, the only proper way to make sure any issue you discovered us fixed is to spread knowledge about it and have everyone abuse it. should have done your job in the first place, should have released a game without that "feature" if you didn't want your users to use it. is it an unfair exigence? sounds like a you problem. it's not your users' problem if your product has gaping holes.
i'm a firm believer that there's no wrong in knowledge. if you think the knowledge of how to cheat is wrong, then spend less time bitching, and more time patching.
the fact that they released a game mode in which you are so rewarded for using analog inputs, and even more for never going past 60% throttle... it is their mistake to start with. if they bitch about analog curve in driver set to a different max, i'm gonna glue a couple of nuts to my controller to prevent the stick from moving past the 60% point. when they bitch about modified controllers, i'll put on a thumb splint just loose enough to move up to the 60% mark and no further. and if they keep bitching, i'll find a guy with exactly the right kind of rheumatism in his hands to have his thumb lock at 60% throttle. and we should keep looking for the most stupid bypass to their band aid rules until they finally fix the issue that going past 60% throttle in their game mode is always a mistake.

if such a situation happened in motor sport, that on a set of specific track having your throttle blocked from going above 60% was an unfair advantage over those with a free throttle, literally every car lined up a the start would be made with a 40% lower throttle. and that's it.
not hinting at a 5 minutes solution to the issue... not at all...

the punishment is warranted imo. if you didn't use it ingame just asked a question about it i would understand the upset. you used something in game which (as you said) might get you banned. the obvious solution would be to just wait for the response before using the software you didn't know was allowed or not.

Ubisoft moment

So are they gonna allow keyboard on console?

It's Ubisoft, what do you expect from them? That they actually think things through? I have lost EVERY LAST BIT of trust in companies like Ubisoft or EA, they did so many dumb and stupid things... This is no surprise to me. Just don't say anything, do what you want and... idk... I guess go back to Trackmania Nations Forever or whatever.. Its community "maintained" now, so way better than any of these predatory companies will ever do it.

technically it's not third party software if it's a custom keyboard

The xbox elite 2 controller lets you switch between 3 different profiles while playing

this is the dumbest thing i have seen in a while

Maybe if you wouldn't drive multiple WRs to prove a point about it being balanced and not an issue it might've been better. Honestly you're sending mixed signals with this as you say that this isn't cheating and it balances the game, but at the same time you straight up destroy WRs with this technique making it seem like cheating, forcing nadeo to warn you as you showed that high end analog keyboard with custom curves in fact gives you unfair advantage. I think you're doing a great job, focusing on balnce of the game, but your idea of making a statement needs to change, otherwise you'll just throw more people and input devices under the bus and cause bans.

I think, if changing setting like that gives you an unfair advantage the gamedesign is just bad. They cant do anything against that, because different controller devices will always have different benefits. Investing more money into your device will always give you an advantage in every game. They cant change that. The thing they can change is gamedesign to bringt people with worse devices on the same level with better devices

Is it possible to make a custom curve, where close to the end it is 100% and the in the last Pixel goes back to 60%? you still have all the range but non linear. So you could drive almost normally and would need to be carefully to not steer compeltely except when you want the 60%, then you just full send the stick.

What about different products having different default curves???

what i find funny is that the crew motorfest as settins to change sterring liniarty and even cap full throutle to less than 100% and is also a ubisoft title, so whats the diference off the 2 games

i think if you're doing the, "Alright you said dont do this, but this is technically not doing it." You should still get the warning/ban, because at that point you know what you're doing, everyone knows what you're doing. just dont do it.

Big fan of Wirtual but it does seem like he’s being purposefully facetious in this video. Everyone in the chat in the video is calling him out for his interpretation of a fairly clear statement from nadeo (eg. all the people pointing out the “for example”).

Unfortunately this seems to be an area where Wirtual’s youth and naïveté is showing. It’s pretty clear Nadeo doesn’t want any manipulation to be done using tools like his mechanical keyboard’s software and they just need some time to write up very specific language. Usually in this situation you’d want people to follow the “spirit of the law” but unfortunately folks are going to instead just try to find loopholes to justify what is clearly advantageous behavior.

Man trys to save game:
Company: imma ban you

Ubisoft´s customer attention is trash. They should all be fired and finally hire people with a brain in their skull. The amount of censorship that Rainbow Six Siege has gone since its beginnings has made me quit altogether.

I'd like to note that saying you can't set it to go from 0 to less than 100 allows some more options than you said.
I'm not sure if they'd work because I don't play Trackmania, but you could legally set the curve to go from 20-100 (and then the 20% steering on each side would cancel I think, so at 100 you wouldn't be steering at 100?). You could also go 1-60 if you wanted.
Additionally, you could set something below your keycap that physically limits it to make the curve be 0-60.

i think that it is fair to argue that what he did didnt give him an unfair advantage but just leveled the playing field considering that playing on keyboard gives you and immediate disadvantage with the snow car

... if you wedge something physically under the key so it can only depress 60% of the way, can you get the same result? Maximum pressure on the key resulting in only 60% steering and no software modifications involved? (This is the same kind of hack as using thread to mark a reticle on a monitor for no-scoping, or inserting a 3d-printed ring around an analog stick to limit it's movement.)

Nadeo seems quite competent but they're a part of ubisoft in the end so weird, unclear statements are to be expected imo

I find it hilarious that keyboard was always viewed as the superior platform to play on and now that controller has one small part of the game that is more advantageous everyone is crying lmao

Not all controllers are currently linear, so I look forward to seeing controllers with most of their effect near the center, or near the edge get banned and players having no control.

Ubisoft is trash. If you play a PC game with a controller you should be penalized, not giving aim assist and steering assist..........

I've been following this for a while mainly for interest and the hilarious things are the gamepad players. "Just buy a gamepad". Not only do K&B players don't wanna spend money on more stuff they rarely use, but it's the same thing. Why not just use a keyboard? I'm not gunna basically relearn a game just to play with the advantage you already have with a controller. Just as a majority of controller users dont wanna learn keyboard to play specific games. Controllers were made to be easy and for casual gameplay. Thats why they have auto-aim assists, its why you can't play ranked crossplay in multiplayer games. And gamepad users thinks it's unfair that theres ways to make a keyboard play like a controller? But just buying and using a controller is okay? The logic doesn't make sense. He's essentially putting himself at the same level as you peripheral wise but is just better because he's using the thing he's most comfortable with and knows how to use lol. Next we'll hear that mechanical wired keyboards are banned cause people are using wireless controllers and membrane inputs so gotta ban that unfair advantage keyboard players always have! Give keyboard players auto-aim too and we'll see how much gamepad users really complain.

Wait a minute, what? I am not involved with this community at all, but it seems like there are advantages to playing on an analog controller compared to keyboard that you are just trying the even the playing field.

In that logic, they should be taking a note from Fighting Games and allowing whatever controllers to play the game. Not a perfect example, but pretty similar in this case.

The other examples you gave deserve way more of a ban as its changing the gameplay itself and not the controllers.

The stance they have is confusing and as a potential new player would just want me to stay away from even attempting to be a part of this community.

This reminds me of how a friend in high school, who was responsible for upkeep of our school's website, found a massive security vulnerability that anyone with the knowledge could use to access every student's PPI. He documented and reported it INCLUDING A SOLUTION, and the school board threatened to expel him and press charges. Why is Nadeo's response to publicly discussing issues in their game to threaten bans and legal action? I agree with you, all that does is encourage players to mind their own business and cheat in private, which creates a toxic community and could very well decimate the competitive fairness they've tried to cultivate for a couple decades now. If they play this wrong, the legitimacy of Trackmania leaderboards could be lost entirely, and without that, what does the game offer the community?

You're doing the best work, Wirtual, and I desperately hope Nadeo gives enough of a shit to approach this right and without punishing you or others for creating and encouraging the discussion

This reminds me of playing MtG. Almost all of my friends come to me when they have an unclear situation in the cards. What I do is nothing special, though, I just happen to have a lot of practice choosing words very carefully because I have poor communication skills. I'd rather be verbose but leave nothing out of my explanation and put nothing unintended in than be brief and easy to misunderstand... even if being verbose means most people won't have the patience to read through my comment. When the difference between 'a' and 'the' actually matters, you want someone who won't let their brain read in autopilot mode. Pretend that if you replace any word, it changes the meaning, then (when writing) select which word conveys the exact meaning you want. Or (when reading) consider the differences carefully, and where there is still ambiguity, you have found where the letter of the law stops and the interpretation vs spirit of the law debate begins.

Why not just have 2 ccatecories, one with custom analog curves and one without?

Does using tape and cardboard on a controller or analog keyboard to physically restrict movement count as a latest cutting-edge tool?

idk, to me limiting it to 60% is just normal calibration.

U called out nadeo to give u an answer. They did. Now u crying about being punished? Man u are so sad.
Dont use 3rd party software, cant be more clear than that. And if u want scrapie to be banned, dont assume nadeo seen his video, report him youself. Or other players u find that use 3rd party software.
U assumed from the start that nadeo not gonna fix new car, unless u go out of the way and break the rule.
Which probably wasnt true.
Im sure nadeo noticed it themselves and were working on it without ur help. Ur just a player, not more than that, play.
Looking for loopholes in clear rules, is not ok.
DO NOT USE 3RD PARTY SOFTWARE.
You put youself in a spotlight, and then cry about being in the spotlight lmao.

Ubisoft is fucking disgusting, need I say more?

The crazy thing is that, technically, wirtual's "keyboard" is just a controller.

It's too bad when 90% of twitch chat are idiots lol.

Not a TM fan, but wow this dev is pitiful.

there is no way they can detect profile switching on the xbox elite controler so how they hell can they detect hardware profiles that saves your settings to the controller and not via the use of software

The true "if I'm going down I'm taking you all with me 😂"