The Controversial Origins of the Word of Faith Movement

Well, the analogy you gave with a husband cheating and doing that stuff and then people saying well he’s a good dad or he’s a good cook or whatever you said guess what often times in those churches that’s exactly what they will tell you just focus on the positive just be more respectfuljust submit more and he’ll come around that doesn’t work by the way.

This healing and prosperity teaching has destroyed my sister who has many chronic illnesses. It has caused her to now have a mental illness because she has not been healed. I think she blames her lack of faith to her continued illnesses. It is absolutely heartbreaking.

Great interview thank you :) I will be ordering that book asap- it will definitely help with apologetics!

Kenneth e hagins mistake was getting into E W kenyons books and leaving the AoG Denomination. Hagins mentors J R Goodwin and his wife warned Hagin about E W Kenyon but sadly hagin was hooked by that point and believed kenyons teachings to be true.
I was WoF for over 20 years and i can say from experience that kenneth e hagin was sincere in his beliefs although sincerely wrong sadly. He never set out to decieve people or make money from them, he lived a modest life no mansions or planes etc. however copeland, duplantis, meyer and many others used hagins teachings as ways to get rich and powerful in my opinion. Before hagin died he also held a WoF conference where he rebuked prosperity teachers and called them to repent, also hagin peroidically updated or corrected various teachings of his due to errors he made.

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I have a brother-in-law that was caught up in the WOF right after his conversion in a traditional church. He later “started a church” based on WOF theology. He is steeped in this nonsense and will die the same.

I tried for years to be at peace with he and my sister. I still am, but have distanced myself for several reasons I will not discuss. It is cultic to be sure, not Biblically consistent.

Thanks Melissa. Any thoughts on William Branem

This is ridiculous Hagin has nothing to do with others .. he preached a beautiful gospel

Excellent work.
Thank you.

I have suffered for 30 years with chronic pain due to an illness that I've had. I have prayed for healing many times and was not healed I still pray for healing but I know God is good whether I am healed or not and I choose to😅o trust him.

We often look at the contemporary culture of the Bible times to interpret meaning. Should we also look at the culture of the of those leaders. The Great depression had a huge impact on people's lives. There was a poverty mindset. Keep the preacher poor.

They have an outward look of holiness but deny the power of God

They don’t have the Holy Spirit this is why they speak and preach in error.

Very interesting - thankyou.

Do you have a video about the dangers of Calvinism as well?

"The Bethel Debacle"??? What happened at Bethel?

Seattle, WA

This is off topic. I live in Auburn, WA south of Seattle. I started this off with Seattle to catch eyes of people who know the area.
Does anyone know a biblical sound church in Auburn or S. King County area. I am having difficulty finding one. Thanks

Part two please! 👍

Thank you Melissa for providing us with this instructive conversation. Dr. Robert is a gem. I could listen to him all day. Please do another interview with this gifted teacher.

Thank you. I would love to know why the verses re healing are not used correctly so I can share this when challenged by others.

Great interview. Thanks for this.

The story of our brother, Nabeel Quereshi was a note to all of us, that if God had a formula for healing, he owed Nabeel a healing because of the sheer volume of people fasting and praying all around the world, me included. When he wasn’t healed, my faith was not rocked, but my thoughts on healing were schooled. God decided. Having enough faith doesn’t decide. And further more, to pray for him to be raised from the dead was simply selfish. At that point he was standing in the presence of his savior doing just fine, and would not have chosen to return to this fallen earth.

Thank you for this coverage and conversation, it is important to expose the deception that often quietly lies within “Christianity”
thank you

Okay. Now I need to listen to this video again and maybe 100 more times before I will understand all the meaty messages in here. Loved it! My mistake was trying to listen while doing housework instead of sitting at a desk with pen and paper.😂

I’m not able to listen to this. It’s really interesting but the clearing of the throat is hard to get past after 20 minutes. Can we get this man a lozenge or mute mic button?

That was boring...

Thank you for sharing this issues of controversy. I have been a victim of these tfalse teachings. I was indoctrinated since i was 13. Now i have to pray for my husband to see the truth

What's better? What's worse? Would you rather trust modern medicine that endlessly controls your illness, creates drugs with an endless number of side effects and potential death, and is based of the theory of evolution? Not to mention what fraud has been exposed by the murder of Brian Thompson CEO of United healthcare. Or would you rather trust Jesus instead to give you what modern medicine cannot? Is it then just fables about people having severed limbs grown back and healing from all kinds of diseases even down to genetic syndromes? There is also the hit and miss of going to natural health food and supplement stores. Then there are even the near death experiences where people should be dead have come back with both stories of experiences from beyond and spiritual healing and gifts that they previously did not manifest. Have you ever seen the people treated by the mental health system who now have permanent tardive diskenesia? I personally knew someone treated by the mental health system who effectively committed suicide because he could no longer drive a car his shaking was so bad from diskenesia.. Only Jesus can give us the best deal in body and soul and spirit. As far as almost everything except emergency treatments for infections and trauma I would far rather trust Jesus than all the specialists in the world. What do you choose? This evil or that evil? If going to Jesus for health issues instead of going to big pharma and doctors and insurance companies what would you rather do? And natiral healing by supplements can be healing too and often far less dangerous than big pharma big corporations who are only interested in the well being of their stockholders.

Timothy Benjamin Jarrett

Very, VERY good, solid teaching that untangled a lot of strings for me! Thank you!

Compared to many of the next generation, Dad Hagin was actually pretty moderate on "prosperity," and near the end of his life he warned some of that next generation to not focus so much on prosperity and materialism.

Hagin and Roberts were friends, but back in the day there was friction between the "Word-Faith" and "Seed-Faith" tribes.

I hope he does do a follow-up. His book was the most balanced I've ever read on the topic, and I'd love to read his take on things now, 25 years later. FTR, I'm a Pentecostal-Charismatic whose main influences are Gordon Fee and Craig Keener.

But you cannot rule out Divine healing. I wouldn’t be alive today without three miraculous healings. I don’t credit any particular “faith healer”, I credit the prayers of friends and the promise that by the stripes of Jesus I am alive today.

Nice

Please also elaborate about the Manichean-Gnostic origin of Calvinism as being clearly stated officially in Saxon Declaration at year 1592 of Lutheran's faith ( the true standard bearer of Reformation) .

We are not looking for Jesus Christ to return. Jesus said He was going to be back in the 1st century. "Some of you will not taste death before you see the Son of Man coming in glory and power".

Are Dallas Williard and Sheila Walsh part of the new thought?

This is such an interesting discussion. Thanks to both of you!

You have to know The Bible to siseen bibical Christianity

I love how Costi Hinn (Benny Hinn's nephew) now knows the truth, and tells people the truth. I've heard him say how it is so much more loving to let people know that it's not owed to us for God to heal us. And, that it's destructive to teach that God will heal you if you have enough faith.

I wonder if Roberts chose Methodist to be his denomination because he knew later on it would be accepted by people as a sound "normal" denomination even though he knew he taught word of faith? I'm thinking that he sprinkled word of faith in little by little until it was normalized. So people wouldn't question if the ideals are in the Methodist church. Methodists I think are the least stingy of the major Christian denominations (not counting Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses) about people knowing absolute correct doctrine aside from the Epicopstle church, which is much more loosy goosey than Methodists.

A.B Simpson? What’s wrong with him? Well all I have read is “Himself”, there was nothing that the word faith movement would like-it was all about it’s not the “faith” that has power, it’s trusting in Christ which puts us in dependence on Him.

Satans minions working as wolf's in sheep's clothing. But there pretty obvious of you have common sense and read the Bible.
There all about daming souls and making money.

This was great, thank you both. To clarify, George Mueller was not English, his orphanages were in the South West of England, Bristol. GM was Prussian. Looking forward to part 2

Glad you mentioned Andrew Murray. WhenI grew up he was still regarded very highly under certain groups in South Africa..where I am from.But reading some of his stuff... including the one on healing and second blessing stuff 😮has caused a lot of hope...but then uncertainty and disappointment for me.I still do not know what to think of him....mixed feelings.

There’s a story on the net that Kenneth Hagin gathered all the WOF leaders together later in his life and rebuked them for what had become their very extreme and twisted teachings about money. I heard this story years before I ever saw it on the internet, straight from the mouth of a person who could verify it 100% - as in she was related to the student who was tasked with videoing the meeting. There is a VHS tape of this meeting, somewhere in a Rhema vault. Also, K Hagin did write the book “The Midas Touch” at the end of his life that brought correction to the extreme prosperity teachings.

Melissa: I think it's safe to say that God's sovereignty trumps all word of faith teachings. If He is not sovereign than we become our own god commanding His power to work our way. Conversely there is nothing wrong with asking for healing or even raising someone from the dead however unlikely that may sound. Demanding God to do these things is not scriptural or even sensible. Doubt is something we all experience but God is not hampered by it. He has even healed unbelievers!!!