ICF Construction: Why I Haven't Used Them as a Builder

Why are they digging out foam for electric? Run conduit in the concrete….

Not a deal breaker, just overall a better, stronger, safer home, and more climate friendly

This may sound silly, but have you had any thoughts on ICF with a regular 2x4 stud wall on the inside? I like the idea of sturdy and energy efficient concrete walls, but stick frames inside also make it easier to wire, plumb, hang TVs or speakers, or make any alterations. The obvious downsides are more cost and larger overall house footprint.

What else do you do? Sell used cars?

Water in concrete doesnt "evaporate". Ever seen concrete people keep concrete wet for days? That's called curing. Concrete absorbs water after it sets. That actually makes it strongers so that foam insulation works to concrete advantage after it is poured.

You say concrete is not forgiving? Well.. what is there to forgive? U educated builders who cant build right the first time?

Builders in the US have become stuck in old technology and don’t want to change. Stick built is cheap, fast, and extremely profitable. In Germany, 85% of the homes there are solid built meaning concrete walls. It takes a couple of months longer to build but they are much more efficient. I think things need to progress in this country especially in FL. There shouldn’t be any stick built houses being built. Everything new should be concrete. I think insurance companies would agree.

Lets just bring a bunch of Mexicans or south Americans to build the home in concrete. They do it all the time and do it very well. Lasts forever and look much better.

Your concerns about icf is unfounded. I have built several structures out of icf. Zero serious issues. Core drilling isn't a big deal at all, there is also a tool that uses heat to cut into foam for electrical and plumbing. You are crazy to not use icf if you can afford the slight increase in price. It is quite impressive how cool it stays inside!

As a home owner... I will never again own a house that has a stick frame. Stick frames are toxic, wasteful, energy inefficient, weak, extremely flammable, leak when confronted with floods, crumble against earth quakes, require extreme maintenance to last longer than 3-4 decades, are prone to mold, rot, pests, fungus, and every other annoying thing you can think of. Maybe ICF isn't the way to go for everyone, but stick frames make absolutely no sense to build with. My wife and I are personally planning on building with Rammed Earth.

I would choose ICF

Always future proof with conduits and sleeves through pad and walls regardless the type of construction!

I’d hate for someone to have to do math with all the internet and computers today. So what I’m gathering from this video is you don’t like ICF because you don’t like work.

sorry but this is bs, thats why we in Europe keep watching on news houses utterly destructed due to weather phenomena in so many occasions in the USA. Building like in 1800s isn't really an option.

Very helpful. Thanks!

A lot of interesting points. My brother build in Florida. He just built three houses with Icf and loves it! Especially using metal SIP for the roof system.
I am up north at the moment and so I’m building timber frame with wood SIP.

Oh so a builder doesn't like ICF because he can't use canned floor plans and can't make sure that everything is set before breaking ground. Yes, there are considerations. Just say that you are not the right builder for the job and don't take on a project that you are not capable of. Don't talk down a method that has numerous benefits.

At least you are honest with the issues that need to be addressed.

ICF is outstanding. I vote yes. 😊

Self interest advertising. That’s why the framed homes on wooded areas burn down to the ground. ICF is a great build and will save energy costs among other benefits. Your way is your choice. Misleading.

What it sounds like is your don't want to change how you build more excuses for why you as a builder don't want to use it.

After a Hurricane, Typhoon, or Tornado, You'll wish you'd chose an ICF building ...

Comparing a timber construction with concrete construction is quite strange to me. To me a builder is someone who builds with bricks and concrete. Someone who builds with timber is well, a carpenter. I live in Europe.

An honest opinion without being rude. OK. But most of the comments were along the line of "if you don't plan right, then...". Of course. No one will take a set of plans for stick built and assume everything is the same for ICF. I got plans for my new home from a company that offered both versions (and then some). This is just about common sense. Of course you make sure you have enough penetrations for your utilities, and maybe a couple more just in case. etc...

Thank you for addressing the moisture issue. I can't understand why anyone would decide to sandwich curing concrete between two panels of foam, that sounds like you're just asking for trouble.

I think to do ICF as just an exterior wall concept then lumber interior walls. Then make all electrical and plumbing connections only to interior walls. I could live with that then you should have no problems with repairs due to moisture damage and the exterior wall should remain stronger for longer. Id hate to have to do repairs breaking and fixing concrete would reduce the integrity of it.

Lennar is building using ICONs 3D printing. This means robots and drones are building homes in future, and now. They are cost competitive, so ICF builders will be forced to step up their game.

2,000-3,000 additional architectural costs to redesign ? more like 12,000 !

Sorry, I didn't hear any valid reasons to avoid ICF builds. All you need to do is find a builder and designer/architect who specializes in ICF and you're good to go. The long term benefits and savings far outweigh any build issues, IMO.

"The reason that concrete doesn't dry out and then reabsorb water later is because water isn't leaving the concrete at all. It's reacting with it and becoming part of the concrete form."

Yeah, you sound like about 95% so called contractors that turn their nose up at ICF, but at least you didn't make up many lies like they do. First off most aren't capable of building ICF and not interested in learning. They love the sticks though, do it fast as possible, hire anyone that can use a hammer or nail gun. It ridiculous really how they build sticks in high wind area's and declare they are just as good. Anyone one that is real and has ever lived in a good ICF house don't want anything to do with stick. So much better in just about everyway.

Good for him to admit he lacks experience. He did mention issues from how someone lives in the home, without listing humidities from bath kitchen or humidifiers. Some video showed ventilation channels spaced around for exchanging fresh air. No remarks specified residual wall moisture, but now it makes total sense with this video. Thanks for essential study questions!

The extra costs of building an ICF house come back as savings over time in the cost to heat and cool the house. That’s half of the reason to build using ICF. The other half of the reason is ICF houses can handle storms easier than stick built houses can.

The argument about the width of the walls isn’t necessary valid. Concrete block houses have the same wall thickness issues that ICF houses have.

As a contractor myself I can say I 100% agree with him. Hard pass for me.

Armchair Builder... i think you Sir are a crybaby...

Seems to me that the only real "deal breaker" would be the lack of ability to renovate or add an addition. All other excuses he gives can be dealt with by thinking ahead and ensuring good subs.

SO basically you dont have the skill. There is no arguing how poorly American homes are built. Drywall/Wood come on. Anyway, you can refuse to learn how to execute with the right team... you'd be fine. But this is a pretty dumb video. What cost more initially saves immensely in the medium to long term.

@ just 5 to 10% cost difference, ICF is still better than stick frame constructions. This guy is making his points as a builder, not for the consumer’s benefit. Ciao.

I'm beginning to get the idea with this and other 'advanced' building methods, stick framing is still the best.

1 floor ICF ,2 floor wood. that is good

I built a Poly-Steel ICM home 25 years ago in MN and would never go back to stick built construction.

You get concrete, much of the rebar, great insulation, air barrier, vapor barrier and avoid furring out to hang drywall - all in one step. Am I missing how it can’t be better if the cost is similar to traditional, especially for a basement???

Always good to hear both sides of the story with building a full ICF home. We are thinking ICF for only the basement and stick build on top, with outer envelope of stick build with zip R sheathing to deal with the thermal bridging of the 2x6 or 2x8 studs. Thank you from Eastern Canada in Atlantic Provinces🙏🇨🇦

Basic competence is required to build - huh? ^^that Does sound sketchy^^. A draftsman can draw these plans and any ICF maker offers the specialty details. The industry has experience, but by all means let the labor decide the efficiency of your home. We built a 4400 SF 3 story house for same budget as stick built w/ R50 walls that had electric co. inspector guarantee $60 / month to heat & cool. This guy probably has a nice corvette or bass boat.

You just don't use ICF because you don't have enough confidence in your work and trades.

ICF is vastly superior to any stick framing.

I have icf and will never go back. I just love the efficiency

Everything mentioned is quality control issues with the contractor. Not blaming you, just saying its good you know your limits. Being only skilled enough and not willing to learn a new material isn't a bad thing, its your business, you do whats comfortable and profitable for your company.

So basicly what he is saying is....if you are an idiot don't use icf....as an owner your house will be waaay more energy effective, use less electricity to heat, will be cooler in summer time, plus not to mention it will be 1000 times more resistant than that shitty plywood every lazy-ass constructors are using...of course it's easier, faster and at least 3 times cheaper for them to use wood than concrete and not to mention less skilled workers....

Great video Michael. Thanks for sharing!

I built one. I never consider other methods than ICF. If you use brick the wall wil be 19 cm. But if the land is big no problem. USE STACO AND You have to have very good plan. Otherwise price will go up.

I don't mean to be rude after all you and I are colleagues since I myself is a contractor in Geneva Switzerland interestingly enough all the cons that you gave us of why you rather stay away from ICF kinda seemed to be linked to either your crew's incompetency or lack of reliable craftsmanship if you want my honest opinion hence the more I listen to the video the more I feel like ICF the way to go anyway let us know if you've changed your mind and why is that....