HELL REVEALED II - DEAN OF DOOM - S2E6

You seem to be more tolerant of archvile jumps these days

I like how seige II has litterally no relation to the first one

My favorite of the series so far is Hell Revealed 3. Shout out to Map08 called "I never played Hell Revealed"

why did siege II get the dunce cap instead of the inmost dens III? you seemed to hate that one more, sure siege ii is boring as f*ck but the inmost dens iii litterally goes out its way to frustrate you.

I mean the point of "The Siege II" is fairly well laid out. If you're judging it on what it's trying to accomplish, it does it fairly well. It's a bit of a cop-out to just call it lazy, because while anyone can just dump a ton of monsters and ammo in a location, it does take some thought to design such a level in a way that it's beatable and challenging, without being too easy or too difficult. It may not be the best example, but is it really an F? These kind of maps are the only place where I think you're not as objective as with essentially every other type of map, whether you like them or dislike them.

I appreciate your immense effort to keep yourself from calling this whole megawad just straight up bad.

Possibly the worst and laziest way to up difficulty in Doom levels.

This wad is an improvement over the previous Hell revealed, but improving garbage into better garbage isn't really an improvement.

Why would you put an archvile in a secret with nothing else? It's just punishing the player for daring to try secret hunting. There's difficult maps and then there's just exercises in cruelty.

Yeah, this wad prioritizes difficulty over quality instead of taking the time to make compelling environments in their levels. Does Hell Revealed or Hell Revealed 2 even have a story?

I will say, one redeeming quality about this wad is the soundtrack. The soundtrack is amazing and I'm surprised other wads haven't used it as much. Particularly MAP14: Metal Meltdown, that one has a great riff. MAP07 MIDI makes me hella emotional: it makes you feel like you're about to fight your last battle before death.

Great video as always MtPain.

Hey!
I am playing through HR2 now, and I can say the mapset is alright for non-pistol starts. I tend not to use the BFG or the plasma gun on levels where you don't get one, and even when shells are abundant, I tend to berserk punch everything ever since I played the Mucus Flow. As for MAP09, I am a bit ashamed of saying I kinda like it lol, I would have given the dunce cap to MAP26, God is that map ugly.

Spreading the joy of Doom, eh? You mean the joy of... eternal hell?

Looking back on this video and I find that imo a couple of these tracks do have quite a heavy weight to them and create a very oppressive atmosphere within the levels they're in and they're good for setting this bleak, one man army vibe which I presume was the intention. It's just a shame that the levels they're in aren't fun to play at all.
I wonder if these tracks wouldve been appreciated more if they were used to compliment better levels.

Hell Revealed 2 is so hardcore, even reading the menu options is difficult.

I have to slightly disagree on your rating of the Inmost Dens III.

The last fight with the 4 cybers is doable without the invuln. Yes, it's not easy, but you don't HAVE TO know about the secret to finish the map.
Of course the map still has a lot of boring fights, so can't really rate it much higher myself.

The descent II would be fun if they mixed in a bit of T.E.E.T.H

Like you begin the elevator, there would be a fight on the elevator until you hit level one; each level would have a different theme and a key at the end to bring you to the next floor. Upon returning to the elevator you begin a fight with all of the enemies that were on that floor, rinse and repeat until you get to the end where a massive fight with all the different enemies from all the floors assault you .

Even when I played this mod in continuous play with OP GZDoom mods, this wad wasn't that fun because it's so ugly.

So I found this review to be very interesting to see the take by someone who isn’t into harder wads like myself. But I’ll keep my points brief and to the point.

I can definitely sense some animosity towards this project throughout this review. While I have the same feelings towards Alien vendetta and tnt evilution. I respect the projects for what they represent and all. But Hr2 is intended to push the limits of combat rather than improve in the design philosophy of hr1 puzzle gimmick combat. Hr2 goes towards a plutonia route of combat, smaller based encounters at the start with somewhat precise setups. Then at the tail end it turns into slaughter based maps.

I do agree that the whole 3D bridge usage in the wad can be a bit much.

Map 02 I have mixed feeling towards this map. The baron at the start is aggravating if your going for wr uv max. Since it requires luck to manage it. The whole hell knight area towards the end of the map with the window cacodemon I think is honestly bad design period. It’s not feasible to fight that encounter if the hell knights walk towards you then your just screwed.

Map 09 - So I question your opinion on this map, since Speed of doom map 30 is the same thing as this map. Circle strafe to win for minutes on end and nothing else. I’m just a bit perplexed about this map getting an F…

Map 11 While I agree that the whole map requiring secrets is bs, that style of mapping is something that was pretty common in the 90s which to meantion for those unaware this project had its first half made in the year 1998, only to be finished years later. Anyway a wad I remember that had this issue that nobody seems to mention ever is alien vendetta map 04 seclusion. If you miss that secret at the start of the map then you cannot beat the map. But nobody seems to bring that up which I find weird…

Map 16 The archviles after the cyber demon hallway can be managed without a Bfg, simple as hiding behind the pillars and pot shoting the viles. Also the cyber demon room with the Mancs can be easily cheesed by forcing the cybs to fire into the walls next to the mancs, and running up to the cybs while they in fight and bfg them. Makes the fight pretty straight forward.

Map 17 the specters in the pit if you go into the teleport pad there you’ll find a secret with four mini cell packs and a caco demon. It counts as a secret.

Map 18 It’s funny for years I never knew that secret with the rockets even existed but I had little to no issue beating the map. The cyberdemons at the end are manageable if you don’t panic. Also gives you good practice on two hitting cybs.

Map 19 It’s unfortunate your experiences with this map were horrid… I loved this map a lot from start to finish. The sense of verticality and progression is something I adore, but to each their own they say. My only gripe is the secret mega sphere is really obscure for a secret…

Map 22 I agree on the map requiring the bfg to beat. I’ve tried to manage it without the bfg, the vile sewer trap you pointed out is pretty much impossible to do without it. However the red key battle I feel that is a pretty easy situation to get out of alive.

Map 24 I personally love the maps design, so I guess I am into weird maps. I will 100% agree though the secret ssg is just horrid. Although I found it my first try, so I understand your hatred for that. Although the ending I have to argue with you about. It is possible to manage the cyber demon quad fight, just have to manage a two shot on one of the four and after that work your way around the room.

Map 27 I just think is a pretty bad map in general. I like the start of it and the room with the spiders and the mastermind in the center. Everything after goes down hill in my opinion. The revenant square is boring and it starts to feel like a Hr1 styled map… boring combat after a pretty great opening, such a let down…

Map 29 So this maps pretty fun for me to play. I don’t enjoy the ending personally just comes off as a let down to me.
Trivia - Deus vault 2 map 13 eagles nest is inspired by this map. The more you know :)

Despite everything I said I don’t hold any ill will towards you for your opinions on the wad. After all we all our strange wad we like that others just won’t understand. I prefer more difficult wads rather than down to earth wads.

I've started and stopped playing this wad 3 times, each time I grind to level 6 and quit.

I never realized this was the way it was until now... idk why I'm just catching this now.

I thought nightmare with its 34 cyberdemons would be the most then again its the master levels so yeah

I'm currently replaying this wad with the "Corruption Cards" mod... it's fun but also really frustrating at times. Especially because I made the dumb mistake early on to take the permanent effect of monsters shooting at me as if I was invisible. This effect is just awful against nearly every monster in the game, but having to fight Cyberdemons and not being able to tell where they're gonna shoot is just horrible!
I actually managed to beat everything up to map 18 so far, including Playground, with super buffed Mancubi and that permanent invisibility effect. Not having to do pistol-start with this mod helps, tho. But map 18 just sucks, even if the music makes it sound like it would be fun. I'm surprised you didn't mention that really annoying blue key jump, where you have to do some insanely precise strafe-jumps to climb some boxes.

I don't know what it is about this wad, but I still find myself playing it quite often despite a bunch of the maps being stinkers. I already left comments on this video on last year's playthrough. I guess it's some weird nostalgia, since it was one of my very first wads ever, amongst Scythe and Plutonia. It's always interesting to hear if other people have the same gripes with some maps as me.

Alien Vendetta and Scythe 2 all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So much better!

I've only ever played HR2 with God Complex and even with being overpowered, this wad can be insane. It's fun though

The Path 2 & The Siege 2 is what made me quit. This megawad is garbage.

this was unironically the first wad I downloaded, so glad I never played it.EDIT: DEAN WATCH YOUR LANGAUGE THIS IS A SCHOOL WITH CHILDREN!

Been giving this WAD a shot lately since I enjoyed HR1 probably more than I should have, and surprisingly mostly enjoyed this one too in spite of its problems (plus its absolute hardcore difficulty contrasts interestingly with Nostalgia being on the easier side)...

Then I got to The Inmost Dens III. Holy crap. Like... there was definitely effort put into the level, and it is certainly functional, which is more than I can say for a lot of PWAD maps. But even then, it's still somehow one of the worst Doom levels I've ever played. It constricts your movement like crazy while forcing you to STOP constantly and mow down monsters mindlessly like they're on a conveyor belt (or maybe you are lol), and it just... it feels like work, not fun. Which, you know, is nothing like the actual Inmost Dens from Doom II, one of the best levels in classic Doom. Definitely one of the most deserving F's you've ever given out on this show (and that's saying a LOT).

I'm glad you tore into Map 24. I hate that level so fucking much.

Do you ever replay or reconsider these wads for when played continuous - or with certain mods? I recall liking Hell Revealed quite a bit, but I don't pistol start each level, and was using "Project Brutality" - so I'll freely admit it was a completely different game at that point. The ability to beat any given map from a pistol start is part of the art in making Doom levels. It would certainly seem that much of the frustration would be fixed by having your prior arsenal.

the worst thing about this is... someone made hell revealed III

what kinda of design is this, like right off the bat its just there to be hard for its own sake

that chastity belt line still gets me

After watching this video and browsing the comment section i remember feeling confused about the final verdict, thinking to myself "wow, ppl actually didn't enjoy hr2?". I had played this wad around 8 years ago and i remembered really enjoying it. So then i decided to do a full playthrough of it again (this time on uv-pistol start instead of uv-continuous (both with 0-3 saves on each map)) to see if my memories were lying to me.

Having just finished that playthrough i can confidently state that i most definitely enjoyed it! Hr2 for me remains an excellent megawad and one that i enjoyed more than the likes of btsx, any of the doom2 iwads, valiant, sunlust, going down, 3ha and many others.

There are three maps which i definitely didn't enjoy, Dis2000 (MAP26), Beyond the sea (MAP28) and The Siege (MAP09). The rest all ranged from an A+ to a C. I do belive that you have to go into hr2 with the mindset that it is a hard wad, and that you'll have to look for secrets and stuff, but even without finding secrets most maps remained very playable and fun.

In a way, I like HR2 because it feels like a real place, like actual demonic bases and ancient ruins and stuff. I get that feeling because the experience within the maps isnt tailored towards the player, instead, they just do its own thing. When playing more modern stuff such as many of the things from skillsaw (which i do admit are absolutely excellent) i always get the feeling that these maps were made for me, not that they're actual places, which kind of takes me out of the experience.

This is not saying that HR2 is realistic or anything, its a very abstract megawad, but my point is that i enjoy the experience not being tailored towards the player

Additionally, i believe the OST makes all the maps a lot better and manages to evoke a wide range of feelings. Just like HR1, HR2 is elevated because of its great ost.

Cheers! love the review and i hope to see more vids from you. Just another thing, i really enjoyed the last video you posted about secrets

Edit: the maps i enjoyed the most were 32, 15, 16, 31, 23, 19, 22, 13, 03, 29 and 07. Ill probably be playing HR1 again next. In a way, i love that hr2 forces you to be creative and inventive.

And as a final note, i think map09 is a great and memorable idea, executed poorly

I actually loved this megawad. I'm sick of non-slaughter doom wads being too easy so the challenge alone made this a fun if not occasionally frustrating experience

That does look very very hard. It's been fun jumping around and binge-watching these.

Probably the least memorable of my "DOOM MegaWAD Starter Pack". I only remember from map 29 and its endless Revenants. Gosh, that map was a pain in the ass!
And I agree with the final grade. Unlike its predecessor I can't point anything memorable on this MegaWAD other than the title screen saying to you to play on lower difficulties or "git gud, scrub".

Quite possibly the most unfun megawad I have ever played. It’s just an endless barrage of obnoxious bullshit, chock full of fake bridges, Archviles and wood textures. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. That being said, I will eternally be proud of myself for getting through it. There might be harder WADs out there, but not many hate their fellow man like HV2 does

Watching this again two years later and it’s still one of your best.
Wild to think that MAP32 has 1.85x10^134 arch viles! And with that terrible maths joke I’ll see myself out.

this dude is insane. he's pistol starting these Wads... twice

Currently on map 20. UV saveless, not 100% kills. Mostly not loving it tbh lol, but I loved HR1, so here I am. This doesn't feel like a sequel at all though, save about 3 maps.

Ahh, Pagb666

this is one of the first custom wads i finished when i started getting into looking for and playing custom wads beyond the base games. in hindsight, a terrible decision despite actually taking the effort to finish it front to back. ugh.

Hell Revealed, Aka: "The UnOfficial AOED 5 Megawad"

Shoutouts to Soundwave04

Finally finished this wad, and…I know this has its fans, I know some people call this better than HR1, and…you know what? To any HR2 fans out there, Go ahead and enjoy it if you do. But for me, Hell revealed 2 is not a good wad. I’m not gonna act like it’s complete Garbo, it’s got some great moments and stellar maps, but for every one of those maps, you get 5 okay maps or 5 terrible maps, some of which weren’t even made for the wad (excess meat and sewer slaughter being Plutonia 2 rejects, and beyond the sea…well, Altimamantoid already brought it up). I wanted to give it a fair shake, but at points it either felt like work or a cheap joke at my expense. The best it ever got was near the beginning of the middle third. The opening stretch is one of the worst I’ve ever seen in a wad, and after Playground, it just leaps from mediocrity to torment of the worst kind. The only upside I can give is that the midis for this are actually pretty solid and kind of do the oppressive nature of Hell Revealed 2 justice. Other than that, and a few levels that I can say are good if not top notch…yeah, I’m not a fan of this. This wad is like wiping your face with sandpaper, and I never want to go through it again. If you want to play this or any hell revealed wad…again, hell revealations just came out and even if it’s more of a tribute wad, it’s leagues better imo.

Best Maps:

Playground (easily the high point of the wad. It was honest to god exhilarating last time I played it, which wasn’t a feeling I got from hell revealed 1 if I’m being honest)
The Path II (of all the sequel maps in this wad, this is easily the best one, and one of the high points of the megawad)
Hardcore (I feel like across all of the hell revealed wads I played, dead progressive probably has the best treatment of any map, and this is no exception)

Worst Maps:
Beyond the Sea (no question, this is leagues worse than The Siege II. It’s so tedious, stupid, and cruel in the worst way possible, and the fact that it was just taken from one of Andy olivera’s other wads to get it out the door really goes to show how fractured the quality of this wad is. You may not have failed it, but I will. This map is exceedingly cruel so I might as well be cruel to it.)
The Inmost Dens III (I was honest to god shocked and impressed with how spiteful this was and how it could just lock important items behind VERY obscure secrets and punish you with its archviles and cyberdemons for even playing the map. How could a map like this exist?!)
Anti Static (l don’t think I’ve ever seen a map this crudely designed and unforgiving. I know it has its fans, but…yeah, I just see a mess. It would get a tribute map in the Hell Revealations Bonus wad, and it’s miles better than the original.)
Source Control (I can not in good faith call this “better” than hell revealed’s title map. This is just a different flavor of dumb, cruel, and agonizingly bad.)
Insatanity (I think this map is the perfect summation of Hell Revealed 2’s horrible opening stretch of levels. Cramped, ugly, cheap as a bullet in the back, and now making me think that I soft locked myself and punishing me for figuring out how to progress. Like…come the hell on.)

Every time HR2 is fun and enjoyable, it is almost always because of the original Hell Revealed. Maps 13, 15 and 27 are pretty fun, but they are based on the original HR. There are only a few instances where HR2 does something original and "HR worthy": Map29 and Map32. The other levels are mostly ranging from mediocre to bad. It seems that hardly any of the other mappers except Feragen fully understood what the og HR was all about. There were some good maps in there, but not much else.

The ost is perhaps the best part of HR2.

Revisiting this after recently finishing the absolutely stunning Simulacrum makes me think about how good we have it nowadays. I say that Simulacrum has a very similar problem of way too many archviles with too many of them existing to recycle fights but GOD HR2 is purely excess for excess sake.

HR2 isn't a great wad, but at least it tries something different than most of its contemporaries. And I think other wads don't get punished enough for being too easy.