Battery-Electric Locomotives DON’T Work - And Here's Why

Battery electric locomotives are okay for certain use cases, however, would be impractical for any long-distance uses.

What would electrification cost? It is estimated that it would cost about $4.8 million / mile to electrify track. There is about 160,000 miles of track in the US, meaning that it would cost around $768 billion just for the electrification of track. The $4.8 million does not factor in the cost of transmission of power to the tracks. Then you have to replace the locomotives; Diesel electric loco's may cost between $1.5MM and $5MM, Electric loco's run from $2MM - $10MM, and high speed locomotives will run around $20MM. There are about 23,500 locomotives currently operating in the US. Replacing all locomotives with electric versions (not battery) would be around $235 billion (avg cost of $10MM). So, before maintenance, we are already at $1 TRILLION in capital expenditure to electrify the US rail system. (And that is if we don't experience the significant cost overruns that CA is currently dealing with. CA is spending about $210MM / mile for their high speed rail.)

Then, electrification needs to be supported by the grid - and this goes for either battery loco's or more traditional electric engines. When you look at the current state of power generation and transmission, the US is way behind the necessary capacity to support replacing automobiles, heavy trucks, and household appliances with electric alternatives, much less layering in the rail network. Is there enough land available to generate the type of "green" energy desired by climate advocates? How much land would be covered by wind farms and solar fields and how much environmental destruction would need to occur to build batteries, solar panels, and wind turbine blades? Sorry, didn't mean to go off on a rant.

At some point, it would seem that we need to move away from diesel-electric locomotives simply because oil supplies will dwindle. Battery engines will not meet the needs; the laws of physics put an upper limit on how more efficient batteries can be. Electrification may be the best alternative, but it clearly presents numerous challenges.

What is the difference of burning diesel in the trains to generate electric power for the motors of the train and using electrical power from the grid and having that grid powered by diesel Generators powering the grid hundred of miles away. if you add up all the line loss of energy to get to the train, it doesn't make any sense.

Consider the amount of emissions per pound of freight moved by diesel locomotives and you realize there are more productive ways to save the world.

Strangely, the concept of a motor powering a turbine to generate electricity is one of the best thing. If we can't find a new fuel to power those engine (aka synthetic fuel - fully biodegradable or harmless to the environnement), it would be a lot better than going with battery. Sadly, in our universe, there are no dilithium crystal able to produce clean power...

Also, don't get fooled by train electrification: that electricity has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere is powered by coal, oil or diesel (or nuclear). Few countries have green electricity (water, air, sun) in 2023, so those fully electric trains aren't as green as you think they are - they look green, but they require a lot of CO2 producing facilities to power them.

Silly me expecting some actual detailed information instead of the usual blunt superficiality.

A lithium ion battery operated locomotive that's, prone to spontaneous combustion, hauling hazardous flammable materials like, oil and gas...

What could possibly go wrong in a town near you?!?👀👁️👁️🙄

Let's get down to basics, how do you charge the battery? Ans. Plug it into the grid. Where does the grid get its power? Ans. Mostly by burning coal, oil, or natural gas and running a generator. OK, smart hybrid cars can charge their battery by regen braking but they also can use their prime mover engine to do the same, most of the time the car's engine is not working very hard and it could very easily just work a little harder and charge up the battery. Battery locos sound like a good idea in yard switching service where the loco just does short bursts of power to get thing moving and then just rolls along till the get to the right spot. Mainline trains just use way too much power to be strapped to a battery. Besides, what is the alternative to a train, you ask? Ans. Two hundred diesel burning trucks. Most of the main branches of the LIRR are already electrified with the exception of Port Jefferson. The line east of Ronkonkoma and the Montauk and Orient lines are not electric and I doubt very much if this will happen as these line only see a few trains daily and then schedules are reduced more in winter. I am sure there are better uses for the state's scarce capital than these lines. The chances for large scale main line railway electrification in the US is very small, it would cost hundreds of billions for the railroads, and hundreds of billions more for the utility companies that would supply the power. I should add that electric locomotives are more expensive than diesels, they would be cheaper if there was a plan to make thousands of them over a long term period but this hasn't happened as of yet. A major issue in all of this is scarcity, there isn't enough copper, lithium, silver, and other scarce metals to support all of this plus building a million electric vehicles annually here in the US. China controls most of the world's lithium supply, and currently builds more electric cars than the rest of the world combined.

Has everyone forgotten how electricity is generated? Burning fossil fuel, or nuclear. Which are we looking to, to address the issue?

More wasted taxpayer dollars.

But where does the electricity to charge the batteries come from?

What's the charge time, to charge a locomotive to 100% readiness?
With only 14-15 hours use, it's not a very good prospect.
And what is the cost difference, between a fully electric locomotive and a traditional diesel electric?

Great video! I had no knowledge of any of this. The FLX drive is very cool... Dynamic brakes have always turned the energy from "regenerative" braking into heat that was dissipated with the familiar dynamic brake blisters on locomotives. The FLX, instead of throwing this energy away puts it into a battery. It seems like a no-brainer to put one FLX in each consist that will be coming down a mountain. Smart! (Unlike a 100% battery locomotive).

CLIMATE CHANGE IS A HOAX ANYWAY! ELECTRIC IS NOT BETTER!

How much fossil fuel is used to charge these batteries....? About the same as it takes to run a diesel engine.

The whole world runs on cantilever electric and it works just fine, it's obvious to everyone that Battery electric trains wont work.
Cantilever electric is far cheaper to run than diesel, thats why everyone but America uses cantilever powered electric trains

Well, any new technology is going to have critics just as did the car and truck over horse power. They'll figure it out.
Not all freight trains run for 25h straight, I'll bet there are quite a few runs that are significantly shorter. However, you don't mention in this how long it takes charge an engine. I would expect that an engine mfgr would want to have an arrangement where this is done very quickly. Lots of commuter trains do one run and sit for the day before going back for example.
The problems with lithium production on the environment are (a) utterly trivial compared to destroying the climate of the entire Earth and (b) are often in countries with a poor environmental attitude. I'm sure better ways can be found
I have no expectation that railroad companies would care in the least about the environment. Their job is to make money.
The governments are supposed to fund the legitimate research on such issues like global warming and then effect appropriate regulations. It would be beyond stupid to keep going as we are until our climate is irreparably damaged. We know about the problem so we need to create boundaries to protect all of us from a capitalism that would and is damaging our only home only to make money.
Yes, there will be teething problems with the first battery locomotives just like it took what almost THIRTY years to fully adopt the far more efficient diesel engines over steam even when the profit was largely there.
Let's face it ... we like doing things the way we've been doing them. Some just like the rumble of a diesel or the hiss of a steam engine.
This is all well and good, but Earth can't take it anymore. Roughly half of the Earth's people eat wheat, the other half rice. How much climate change might it take for one of these crops to fail? Or when the West Antarctic Ice Sheet slides into the sea raising the global sea level by 18 feet making 80% of the world's ports useless. Whatever, the myopic financial arguments there are can't undo either of the above.
Perhaps, if we made our stuff in our own country instead of moving it halfway around the world some of this would not be necessary. We only do that because we can have our stuff made by a person paid a pittance working in poor conditions. We should be ashamed of ourselves. How much crap do we really need? And if so, make it at home and pay what it costs. Outsourcing creates a false sense of wealth and security. I wish it had never been started. I'm sure it makes someone rich however.
I agree that total route electrification is better, but in the US you are still burning coal to make power so what is the point?

Just a large electric bomb.

The thing about trains is that they are, well, coupled together, aren’t they. So the battery can be on a separate car or cars from the locomotive. This way the battery capacity can be increased to the size needed. Remember, that’s how coal trains used to do it. It’s not rocket science.

So let’s cut the BS about how we can’t get this done. Let’s just do it.

There is an issue with electric motive power that is regularly overlooked... That being where does the electric power for locomotive operating under catenary come from? Well... DUH... it comes from power plants that to produce emissions (some less than others but all produce undesirable byproducts.) The national power grid gets electric power from burning coal, gas, oil or from atomic or water power. The amount of power from wind etc. is minimal at best. The shills for electrification of freight railroads ignore the facts about electric power: 1) electric power is NOT pollution free 2) it is not cheap and 3) not available in unlimited supply. One extremely important issue with railroad electrification is power availability. Shifting to electric power for railroads would likely bring quite a few electric grids to their knees and compete for electric power needed for homes and industry. The same people who want to force electrification on railroads are the same people who fight the building of new electric production capacity and want to get rid of systems that produce the most environmentally friendly electric power... hydro. The people screaming about the "need" for electric railroads are either ignorant of how electric systems work or are ignoring facts to promote their political agenda.

Batteries are slow to charge and producing batteries produce a multitude of environmentally harmful by products. In addition to that because batteries are so slow to charge it will take as many as 5-6 battery locomotives to replace a single diesel locomotive so four or five battery locomotives can be charging while one or two are able to work.

Battery locomotives are an idea whose time has not come... One day we may have technology that would support battery powered locomotives but that time is not even on the horizon...

It would be good to see open, honest and rational discussion of "ALL" the factors involved... but I doubt we will see that

Running electric lines with locomotives running off electric motors would work right now.. Maybe ask Elon Musk how the best was to do this right now today. After all most??? locomotives have ELECTRIC drive motors with a generator to power them/

There is NO climate Change, the climate has always been changing since this earth started Spinning 20 Billion Years ago. I am SO sick of the term "Climate Change". such a SCAM on the Sheep of the world

It seems that hybrid technology for cars and trains should be the stop gap that is developed until something better than lithium ion comes along. Electric cars piece of the pie should stay at the sports car level like it is for now.

The moment you mention the term climate change, you lose 75% of your audience.😸

Greenie idiots don't realize locomotives are hybrids

Are overhead wires easy to sabotage, say with drones?

WHERE ARE YOU GETTING ALL THE MINERALS TO BUILD THESE BATTERIES? NO MINING IN AMERICA?

it will never work while we go all green other nations and our non ally nation that we rely way to produce much on!!! Continually destroy the planet while we produce nothiong is going to be this nations down fall but that is what the current leadership in this country is all about DESTROYING THIS COUNTRY!!!AND THAT THE GOSPEL TRUTH!!!🙏🙏🙏🙏

Battery vehicles=improving a company's image. Waste of resources

BE locomotives would work very well in commuter short to medium haul lines. Commuter trains are far lighter and could fast charge in stations and yards. A large battery pack twice the capacity of a Tesla semi would be more than adequate.

IT takes fossil fuel to generate power to charge those batteries.

You have better luck passing a law that families can own only 1 car.

The USA's electric generating capacity has increased only 5% since 2005 but rose dramatically since 1960. This is due to avoiding adding fossil fueled generating capacity. The entire Zero Emissions program(s) has many bottlenecks.

Why not have an electric locomotive without any batteries and the batteries carried in a separate car right behind or in front of the locomotive? The batteries can be removed and recharged so the locomotive can continue with the load.

MW*hr is not a unit of power. It's a unit of energy.

imagine a locomotive battery fire!

The more obvious "electric" solution: use cheap electricity generated by fixed power plants such as wind farms, solar farms, tidal generation, and, of course, hydro power, to electrolicize water into hydrogen and oxygen. Should be able to modify diesels fairly cheaply to burn hydrogen, or move to gas turbine or fuel cell propulsion. Note that NO solution will really affect such climate change as exists, because a) every major change we make to infrastructure will produce some additional greenhouse gas (as does battery manufacturing) and b) we don't reckon as we should how much natural phenomena ALSO affect climate. Substantial forest fires produce LOTS of smoke while temporarily reducing the biomass of trees, which do carbon dioxide uptake. Conversely, volcanic activity can throw large quantities of ash into the upper atmosphere, producing lasting shading effects and therefore global cooling (look up Krakatoa). Man's activities are puny compared to natural forces. That's not to say we should be wasteful pigs. It is to say we should be realistic, and take into account all relevant factors as well as we can measure them, instead of majoring in political virtue signaling.

To make a further point: I now use almost entirely cordless tools in place of plug-ins. That's because generally they work better and sell for attractive prices. I still use house current to charge the batteries, and this is generated by some power company somewhere, somehow. My experience with the high power, competitive cost, and low maintenance of these tools suggests I may consider an electric vehicle when we next need one - assuming it offers similar advantages. And if building a new house, I would consider solar roofing. But I can only consider the practicalities for our household; I don't actually KNOW the total carbon (or other) footprint for the manufacture and operation of an electric car. Or solar shingles. And I can't AFFORD to consider such factors unless they favor me, or at least don't hurt me.

Hybrid diesel/battery is an alternative, the electrical part can capture energy as the train slows down. I think that hybrid Toyotas get twice the mileage as standard ones.

Currently, there is no such thing as "clean renewable energy". On the East Coast, most of the electricity is coal powered while many other regions use natural gas. Unless nuclear energy is embraced in this country, there will be no "clean renewable energy" for centuries to come.

Each battery electric locomotive shall have a dedicated boxcar, permanently attached to it, which will be used to contain the battery required for it.

Where do people think the electricity comes from? Usually fossil fuels. None of this makes any sense.

Also seeing the damage that EV batteries can do when they go into thermal runway 🔥. Imagine this thing doing it, it would probably destroy the tracks and would make Norfolk southerns increasing train derailments and chemical fires even more toxic due to cobalt poisoning from the burning batteries, I heard the fallout from that would leave people permanently paralysed.

The battery-powered train is a perfect example of greenwashing and laziness coming from the private sector.

I wonder if a hybrid switcher would be more practical. Not like how GE did their version, but one with a small prime mover like the gensets with a very big battery. In flat switching I only ever see an SD40 in notch 1 or 2, going back and forth. You can't tell me that a 400HP diesel wouldn't get the job done, with a big set of batteries to make up the difference in high demand.

Most of what the Class 1's discovered about battery-electric locos also applies to battery-electric passenger cars: Costly, and suitable for low load / short runs only.

Not one minute into the video and I already see a Train Sim World clip lmao

Dude - slick video, but poorly researched! From EMD's Joule page "Joule locomotives recover energy through dynamic braking. When dynamic braking is activated to control train speed, the batteries are charged, saving what would otherwise be wasted energy. Alternatively the batteries can be charged through our range of wayside charging options tailored to meet operational needs." So, no clear difference between EMD's and Wabtec's approach. This initial gaff detracts from any other claims in your video - looks like you might be "brown washing"...

In Newcastle Australia there is a battery powered tram line that goes from Newcastle interchange to nowhere at stops the pantograph raises to charge the batteries but say for example if the tram gets stuck in traffic it'll run out of charge and have to get towed back to the depot battery technology is nowhere near where it needs to be to even start considering battery only locomotives

Nice article, but in my opinion, the whole US railway system would be immeasurably improved with State funding, Nationisation , due to the sums involved . Electrification these days costs less than previous years and the rest of the world's railways are electrified and Nationalised and so much more efficient, giving a good return after about 15 years .😊

Need to use some sort of battery other than Lithium.