7mm Hunting Cartridges: A complete review

Regarding the 7mm cartridges, since my comments on this video over a year ago I have learned some things about the capabilities of the 7x57 that I did not know. I’ll get to that, but first some general observations. Neither Elmer Keith nor Roy Weatherby we’re right about everything. In one of his books or magazine articles Elmer once wrote “Velocity never killed a damn thing”! Obviously Roy and others have shot that out of the water. On the other hand Roy’s claim that it didn’t matter where you hit an animal that the shock would kill it if the bullet velocity was high enough has been proven to be pure BS. A combination of bullet weight, bullet construction, proper velocity for that particular bullet placed in the right spot on the game at ethical hunting shooting distances are all important for making a quick, clean humane kill. Sometimes a large heavy bullet at slower velocity will do just as good a job as a light fast bullet. The biggest problem is decreased practical accuracy and loss of energy for that big bullet as ranges are extended. For my purposes ethical shooting distances on game is definitely under 400 yards. In the last 50+ years I can only remember shooting one deer at just a little over 300 yards.
Another issue which Sir Desert Dog alluded to were the two camps regarding recoil. There’s the “I can shoot anything all day long at the range , never flinch once and bowl a 300 that night”! Then there’s the “Ooh! The 222 Remington kicks too much” bunch. I’ve only shot a friend’s 7 REM Mag a couple of times at a range. No worse than 30-06 to me but I shoot a heavy loaded Siamese Mauser 45-70 and a Thompson-Center 54 caliber Renegade loaded with 120 grains of FF Black Powder behind a 400 grain lead Maxi Ball and I’m a light weight small framed man. A lot of handling recoil is psychological.
Now finally regarding the 7x57. The current SAAMI MAP using the piezo transducer measuring procedure is 51,000 PSI which is not to be confused with the older Copper Units of Pressure (C.U.P) method, which admittedly is not as accurate as the piezo transducer system because the C.UP. system cannot detect transient pressure spikes. With that said, the original 173 grain 7x57 military load for the supposedly weak model 1893 Mauser rifle was tested and found to be safe at 50,370 C.U.P. That translates to about 59,500 PSI. Original research for that was done by Spanish ballistician Salvadore Cardenal in his 1895 report to the Spanish government and later confirmed by J.M. Whittemore in his 1899 “Report of Mauser Arms and Ammunition Relative To Pressures and Velocities”. My 7x57 is built on an early (1914 if I remember correctly) Kar. 98 small ring Mauser which is a medium length action perfect for the 7x57 and will handle the pressure of loads stated to be “only for modern rifles in good condition”. You can’t turn a 7x57 into a 270 Winchester but you can get close with bullet weights up to 150 grains.
What really got my attention was when earlier this year I acquired a 1946 Husqvarna M640 9.3x62 built on an M96 Swedish action exactly the same as used for the 6.5x55 from a gentleman who is British but grew up and hunted in Africa where his father was a government game ranger. He now lives in the U.S., arranges African safaris and still hunts in Africa fairly often. The 9.3x62 that I got from him was one of his “extras” that he has taken 3 Cape buffalo with in recent years. In my my conversations with him regarding his hunting experiences and adventures he stated (in his opinion) that the 7x57 was superior to the 270 Winchester for use on the larger African plains game because of its ability to handle the 175 grain bullets. His two favorites however are the 300 Win Mag and the 375 Weatherby Magnum because he can fire form standard 375 H&H with reasonable accuracy and performance and get the Weatherby shaped cases for reloading.
I was at first skeptical regarding his claims about the 7x57 because like most in the U.S. I was really only familiar with the anemic factory loads and some older hand loads with bullets of 140 grains or there about. Then I looked at the loadings in the newest Nosler reloading manual with some more modern powders. Here’s the eye opening dope I got from running the numbers through a ballistic calculator. The 175 grain Nosler Accubond Long Range shows a ballistic coefficient of 0.648 while the Partition is listed at 0.519. Sectional density is 0.310. The Partition obviously won’t shoot as flat. When I average the trajectory numbers together with a muzzle velocity of 2574 fps for both and sighted dead on at 250 yards they reach a maximum height of 4” above the line of sight at their apex at 150 yards before falling to 4.6” low at 300 yards with 1,778 ft lbs remaining kinetic energy. Even at 350 yards they’re only down a hair over 11” with 1666 ft lbs remaining energy. That’s still running about 2100 fps. If what I read from the gurus that write about such things is accurate that should be good enough for Elk size and weight game out to 300 yards or a little farther. Maximum effective point blank range on elk and such should be close to 300 yards. Maybe 275-280 on Whitetails or Mule Deer with a little smaller kill zone. The 175 might be a little more than necessary on thin skinned deer, but the modern powders can be taken advantage of for velocities obtainable with bullets in the 140-150 grain weights.
Now I will admit that in the factory loaded numbers the 7mm-08 will win the game for me if I ever give up hand loading. For that reason alone I have a Weatherby Vanguard Sporter in 7mm-08 on my wish list because I can’t find a controlled round feed rifle in my price range. Of course I have a couple of 308 Winchesters, one 270W and several others larger and smaller with accumulated ammunition and reloading components, so I guess I’m good to go for a while. Happy hunting boys and girls!😊

I just traded for a 1909 mauser action with 26” barrel , it’s marked.275 Rigby , haven’t had a chance to try it yet .

I’ll keep my 7STW because it always works short or long range with very flat trajectory. My STW shoots very small groups at 500+yds. I’ve use the 7-08, 7weatherby mag, and a 300
win mag and only one I keep was the STW.

This video helped me solve my shopping choices, thank you.

I appreciate your videos. You are logical and speak truth. Years ago when my father was going to gun smith school he wanted to build an antelope hunting rifle. Due to the availability of Mauser actions he used a 93 action and built a 7x57. I own this rifle to this day and it is the reason I am in love with the 7x57. I have harvested the two largest elk I ever killed with that rifle and they were both massive. Due to the strength of the actions of both my 7x57 and my .275 Rigby I am able to load above what most books show as the maximum for the 7x57 without high pressure signs Keep up the good work.

I enjoy all of your videos thank you for making them

I wanted to get extra ammo for my 8 mm Mauser and I'm starting to think I heard 7 x64 brenneke was used by German snipers and preferred for 8 mm Mauser does that mean different bullets can fit in a 8 mm Mauser?

Hello desert dog did the German snipers put 7 x64 brenneke ammo in their 8 mmmm Mauser?

7mm-08 and 280 AI are my favorites.

confused, I have a 7 mm Mauser. can I shoot a 7.08 in the Mauser??

Excellent review.

I have a 1908 Brazillian 7mm Mauser. Should I be shooting 173 grain 7x57 through it? I have some Seller & Bellot 173 Grain, but it might be too hot for this older rifle.

7mm-08 all the way

7mm is best caliber around

7x64mm... and nothing else matters, since 1917.
👌🏻

Great job, I believe in ethical hunting, just like what you said . I have 7mm-08, 280 Remington, 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag, as I use or pick what Rifle I will Hunt with. It's based on terrain your environment and what you're hunting. As a meat eater, I am not expecting 1000yrd or 1600yrd shots that's paper shooting. I enjoy Stalking your animal. Being a sniper has its place but not for Hunting.

I shoot a 7x64 brenneke

Love the 7mm. I own both 6.5 creed 7mm08 and a 7 rem mag. Let's say I use the 7 more

Hornady 7mm PRC...is a great caliber...!!!

280AI!!!!!!! 😁😁😁

Nice intelligent review.

I have the 708 and an AR shooting 3180 with A120 Barnes half inch group I have A7SCW it does be and I can shoot 3/4 inch groups with the 168 and that's my 27 mm and level both

I love my .280 with a 1:8 twist.
I also love my 7mm-08.
I'm all about 7mm bullets.

I’ve avoided the 7mm family heavily because I have smaller and bigger diameter rounds that already get the job done. Dipping my toes into it finally with the 7-30 waters. It’s just mine boggling how many options there are and most of them are barely “better” or “worse” then another, most can have duplicate ballistics if reloaded in modern guns

Why put up with less when you can have the best?

I shoot everything with my .270win. However I do like/enjoy shooting the 7mm08 for killing paper targets!

They all punch holes in things

I'm guessing Ruger no longer chambers the 7×57 but they had made No 1's for it. It was very accurate and could easily handle hotter handloads.

Roy Weatherby’s 7mm Weatherby Mag solved this issue in the 40’s.

A fine video Sir Desert Dog. I think today is the third time I've watched it. The one advantage the 7x57 Mauser has over the 7mm-08 is that in a standard length action with good hand loads you can seat the bullet farther out to take advantage of the 7x57's larger case capacity. Otherwise they're two peas in a pod.

You forgot one!!. The 7 mm bench rest . I shot a few deer out of the Xp 100 hand gun with a 7mm 130 BT AT 75 YARDS IN 1990

One that you didn’t mention that the 7mm magnum stole it’s fire is the obsolete 7x61 sharpe and hart , that’s advantage over the rem mag was it works perfect in modern commercial 98 mauser actions without having to lengthen the magazine box or having to gut the action. Too bad it was only commercially available in the Shultz and Larson action, great history on the 7mms bty 👍

I really appreciate you, too.

Great video! I’m a big fan of the 7MM Rem Mag. It’s a nice shooting round. My personal favorite hunting rounds are the 140 grain and the 175 grain. The 7MM caliber is imo a great all around cartridge.

We use 2 7mm Remington mags and never ever missed it is a clean killer at long range .. our 40 year old? 280 is the beast..?. WE HAVE TAKEN MOST GAME WITH ARE 30 30 150 GRAIN OPEN SIGHTS...? ARE FREEZER IS FULL..?

For the experienced handloader, the 280 Ackley is a real sweet spot. Can make brass from 06 without too much difficulty, and very nearly gets to 7 rem mag velocity without the belt and the extra 10 or 15 grains of powder.
That said, at ethical hunting distance, which in my mind is 350 to 400 yards for the well practiced shot, even the 7 rem mag doesn't do anything the venerable 30-06 won't do. It may be old, but it works. I'll stick with my 06

You are good!

I have a .275 Rigby in a Rigby rifle and on whitetail, mule deer and big reds in Scotland it has yet to fail me, HOWEVER, both of my daughters shoot very lightweight Winchester rifles in the 7mm o8 and they have taken, between them over a dozen big reds with one shot kills so I am of the opinion that handloaded, with Nosler partitioned bullets (140 gr) , there is not enough difference between the two to matter except, my Rigby is just so much better looking

Love my 7mm magnum and love my 7mm-08. 😁👍

284 is king in f-class

Some of these fine old cartridges are nearly impossible to buy a "New" rifle for. If you know a good, genuine Gunsmith. One that doesn't already have a two year long waiting list of paying clients Ahead of you! I'd get a customer made .280 Remington. If the stock of the rifle is specifically "tailored" for your grip. You can almost eliminate most (nearly all?) of that "felt recoil". It's a fine cartridge. And could be used, to good effect on nearly all large game of North America.

I watched the video till the end so it was entertaining enough for me to see the conclusion… so thanks for that.
Part of the time you spent judging cartridges negatively because they weren’t available in factory ammo but you pick the winner partially because of its tune-ability in a hand load?

The issue with cartridges not loading easily (sharper shoulder angles) with just about any of the rounds you reviewed have been mostly solved… most quite a while ago.

One might say that killing an elk w a 7X57 IS UNETHICAL… but according to you it is only ethical if you let the animal know that you’re going to shoot it? I thought that was the job of hunters NOT TO LET THE ANIMAL KNOW YOURE THERE?? You lost me there. Why 400 yards? Why not 350? Or 450? Or 500? No real factually based criteria there… if it was about bullet expansion/velocity, energy, or ability to buck The wind wouldn’t that stretch the “ethical distance” of taking an animal? Especially if velocities have increased by several hundred feet per second? Guys have been saying for 40 years that 350-400 yards is the max ethical distance to ethically take an animal. Fast forward 40 years… with all the improved components, rifles, bullets, powder, optics and other equipment… they’ve all jumped by leaps and bounds! Seems like a lot of guys like yourself don’t want to admit that “ethically” 30+ years ago compared to 2022 is a completely different story? I get you’re old school and I am in a lot of ways myself… but my 13 novice year old boy can hit a 10” target 10 out of 10 w a 223 rem with 10+ mph of wind… and pretty close to that w a magnum cartridge… in fact, most guys with moderate practice and good modern equipment can do that in half that group size in a variety of calibers/cartridges. A lot of this review seemed pretty loosely based on what you think with explanations on your criteria not really making sense or being factually based. What difference does it really mean to an animal if it knows you are there? You lost me there… Bow hunters get 10, 20, 30 yards etc without being detected... do they need to yell or fart loud (NACHO!!!) before letting it fly??? When an animal detects you it runs away which is more of an unethical shot by far to shoot at that point??

I’m not saying 1,000 yards is the new “ethical” distance… but I shot an elk at 627 yards in mild winds and the bullet (which I admittedly loaded) hit within one inch of where I dialed and aimed. The elk was down where it stood… violently over before it began. This bullet was moving at 3,233 fps from one of the three cartridges you easily dismissed and didn’t even mention other than show the casing really…

Some people shoot well, we’ll beyond that and are 100% on everything they shoot. Even with smaller cartridges like 6mm or .257…. Me, that was close to my “ethical” range but only mine… a range that I had practiced, monitored conditions etc for. I also see a HUGE DIFFERENCE between a 7x57 and even the 7mm08. Neither of which I’d ever take on an elk personally… to me it’s a lot about foot pounds of energy at impact of the animal, the bullet I’m shooting, predictability of hitting intended target, the velocity (which triggers expansion), the equipment and how I’m shooting (is it a standing shot or do I have a rest and shooting prone??), is my heart rate and 150 etc…

I think the ideal demographic you’re going for is over 40 which I am (50? 60? +??), who buys factory ammo and shoots their gun at 200 yards at a range on the way to elk camp and as long as they can keep a 2 out of 3 shot group in a pie tin they’re good! If so, I’d agree with you on the 400 yard range… in fact maybe we better call it 200-250…

I fully agree with you on "ethical hunting distances". Personally I feel 300 yds is getting out there a ways, and 400 is a good max range. Watching most people actually shoot and hunt, an awful large percentage of them are having trouble at 200 yds.

7mm mag kills everything I have shot with it.

I have over a dozen rifles from .22 caliber up to .358 and the 7mm has become hands down my favorite caliber. As someone who primarily hunts Deer I consider it the perfect balance. I like my .257 a lot, .264 is also good for deer, .277 is so close to .284 that it is almost negligible. But I feel that the 270 is kind of a one trick pony as are the other lighter calibers. The bullets at the heavy end of the 7mm spectrum to me are more well suited for Elk sized game and yet you still get great performance on critters as big as Elk with minimal recoil. Does it get any better than that? Paul Mauser nailed it over 100 years ago.

As usual ,great information Thank You

Did you do a video like this but for 30 cal? Not finding one.

All the 7mm cartridges owe Remington for 7mm acceptance

The 284 can legitimately be called the original short magnum

The 280 is a great idea. Which never worked out.