why I will never use python-poetry

What about pipenv? Have you tried it, is the experience any different?

Thanks Anthony for all of your great videos. As a new Python coder, I find Poetry is easier than Venv or pip-tools. Poetry documentation is easier to follow. Maybe when I am more advance user, things will change.

poetry is xxxx trash for sure dont run it so many bug

after 1year, do you think this is still true please ?

Wait this guy works for docker??? That is unsettling!!

wow, best breakdown I've seen thus far on actual technical reasons as to why not to use poetry. Great job! Loving your vids

I'm still a big fan of Poetry and will keep using it; However, your arguments here are very good, and I actually agree with them - it's bad to automatically update deps within major versions by default (because it's quite common to reach breaking changes between different minor versions), and it's SUPER BAD to introduce random breakages in CI builds just to "force" people to stop using some deprecated feature.

Thanks for the video, you got a new subscriber 🙂

WTF is going on with 5 percent chance of throwing an error?!?
Did they ever justify or provided their thought process?

A 5% chance to randomly fail in CI is ridiculous, as is the overnight deprecation and removal. I was looking into using poetry but your thoughts have definitely made me reconsider.

true!
what about pipenv?

The amount of issues / commits are out of control compared to pip. That's a red flag you need to check

they did... what......

something to manage tons of packages, cannot be a tons of packages itself

What happened to easy install?

5% chance to fail XDD tf is this Pokemon??

Did you need to install poetry inside a venv? Isn't it designed to be installed at system level, and then it effectively creates a venv?

There were some serious red flags, in the poetry issues page, and this just cements my decision to undo a weeks worth of work in converting my projects to poetry. I hate python.

It is best practice to make changes to the interface just in major version changes, so it makes absolut sense to default to be compatible just to the same major version of a dependency

I thought the "percent change to randomly fail" was just a hyperbole for the thumbnail. But they actually did it for real... wtf

I thought the video was clickbait and you were actually going to like it in the end but wow ok. I just started looking at poetry this morning because setuptools which i build pypi wheels in is so hard to manage. So what is the best practice to make pypi projects?

What about pipenv?

Hi, I have a small question. My project has quite too many dependencies and of course I would want to decrease the number of dependencies but right now every time a package I am using is getting upgraded and it breaks my Code the I need to lock its version. What would you advise me to do? Lock all versions of outside packages so I my code wont have problems so often? Or is it better to always upgrade the external packages?
Thanks!

As someone who's dabbled in Poetry and really liked it, I found your video so informative that it got you my subscription. I'm really looking forward to watching some of your other videos!

Going from completely fine to breaking due to safety reasons is not that bad, but adding 5% chance error is comic and overthetop! Hahaha that is mess up!! Hahah

Seems that the problem is the requests library, not poetry

Wow, ty for sharing this! Not that long ago we've just dealt with flask lib, that had something similar where they simply changed the default behavior, although wasn't even intended to be removed at the end. I went crazy about it. You should do another video about how flask.request.json changed from version ~1.X -> 2.2.X it's default behav.

I love/hate poetry. It is great until it is suddenly terrible.

Sorry this is off topic, it's my first time seeing a video of yours. I just gotta know, what keyboard is that?

Easy ("temp") fix for poetry: pin the version to something pre-1.2.0

Thanks for doing this one, now I can send others asking about poetry to your video. Much easier than having endless debates about why some feel the need for Vogon poetry. There are also other reasons, but if I remember well they would fit in the same category as your example regarding making deliberate decisions that disconsider the user-base. That kind of aggressiveness around deprecations I unacceptable, at least in my view. I was even upset about how aggressive was pip around reporting that is outdated, but what poetry did took it a new level.

Why do you use virtualenv and not venv? habbit, or actual reasons?

Ekk. I did use setup-py-upgrade as part of converting 10's of poetry pyproject.toml's to setup.cfg's so thanks for making that.

Adding randomness is pure evil. Must have caused so much head-scratching and aggravation to people who were on this version.

Edit: thanks about the pip-tools suggestion :)

I can think of some shenanigans based on the implementation 😂
since they are using the global implicit random instance, what if I set random.seed to something that would never cause a brownout failure.

The greatest value for me in poetry is how it helps manage and hence democratize the use of pyproject.toml. This really helped set our team on a journey to sane packaging and dependency management.

The randomness in CI is wild though and we've definitely ran into weird stuff with poetry also the change in how hashes are handled before 1.2 compared to after which also broke our CI.

I had not heard of pip-tools but a brief look at it makes me think it could solve some problems I've had with dependency management. Thanks for introducing me to it!

I've heard a lot of good things about poetry, but have had a stack of problems when using it that made me avoid it for all my projects.

As someone who continually has to deal with issues that only happen intermittently and seemingly with the same inputs having different behavior, this would 100% annoy the heck out of me. I can't believe that a fellow developer would think that this is an acceptable behavior to add, ESPECIALLY in a CI environment.

I feel your pain!

I think this naturally calls for a video on piptools now

Interesting way to tell users that it’s time to fork or find something else

Great video Anthony, thanks! It would be nice to watch a video about pip-tools

That random in CI stuff is... something. Shows that the people behind this project haven't got a good understanding of how people build stuff in the wild, which is indeed disconcerting

BROWNOUT_CHANCE = 5
GET_RID_OF_POETRY_CHANCE = 95

Poetry is still pretty good for mono-repo projects where you have 100 independent venvs; v1.2 has a lot of breaking changes; I agree they had to communicate better, but I guess poetry plays a big role in the future; especially in ML/DS world where side projects like `poetry-kernel` makes the venv management way easier

Anthony, what's up with the thumbnails😚? Looks good though 😎

It's a very WTF decision. I moved away from poetry as well. now I need to convince work to do the same, but it'll be... hard given we migrated into poetry not that long ago...