SHOULD YOU LEAVE THE FLAGSTICK IN OR OUT? | My Golf Spy

DO YOU LEAVE THE PIN IN OR TAKE IT OUT? THE FIRST 1,000 COMMENTS COULD BE FEATURED ON MYGOLFSPY HOMEPAGE!

I play 3-4 times a week. RARELT do I see a ball hit a stick dead center and I see balls hit the stick and MISS then I see go in.

I leave the pin in and play in an amatour tour here in Michigan every event I feel like the pain in the ass guy that wants the flag in and when someone else decides to leave it in and miss the putt who do you think thay blame lol ME but im sticking to it made a 65 footer this past weekend and they were all amazed by that 4 holes later guy misses cause he left it in and blamed me, golfers all of us including me have a million excuses when the outcome isnt ideal. But great videa love you guys and what you do for the sport

Great video. When you make 100 % of 10 rolls versus 50% its 200% better 10/5 =200% not 50%

You know I wanted to just keep my opinion to myself but as a avid golfer for over 30 years I have to put my two cents in here. First your test was for balls that would go 3 ft then 6ft then 9ft by the hole. Even a 20 handicap isnt going to put that aggressive. I also see you tested with dead straight puts with no slope. Try this get a very sloped green and then try your test I bet the result will show the complete opposite. For the test I am suggesting let the ball only get 6 inches to 1 ft past the hole. On a very severe slope you will find the pin will hurt you more by deflecting the ball on off center strikes at what we call dying in the hole speed.

In for me

Definitely in all the time.

Pelz did the research years ago and confirmed advantage on pin in putts.

I leave it in for longer putts but ok with it out for putts inside 5’

I leave it in unless it’s tilted or moving due to wind. Helps me line up shorties too.

Always leave the pin in when there is no wind, that's easy. When there is high wind, which there usually is around here, and the flag is leaning way off center, there are going to be putts that hit the side of the hole where the flag is leaning that normally would go in, but can't because of the flag. I suspect that in high wind you are better off with the pin out, but more tests would be required.

I make wayyyy more with the pin out

If you really want to get nit picky they could test this with the flag sticks at different angles. Some courses I've been to I notice a few of the pins are not perfectly straight. It would be interesting to see how the data differs depending on the angle of the flagstick.

Case closed. You just permanently changed a part of my game using data.

This is great, but only validates older data and a "known fact". Problem is, if it's "known", why even discuss it? Well, golfers have noticed a delta between what is claimed, which is "always leave it in" and their experiences: "I'm almost 100% sure that would have gone in if the stick was out".
The missing data that you should have included if only to state the obvious, is the result when the flag is off-centered, leaning in some direction towards the front half of the hole (towards the golfer). Sloppy stick insertion is probably the main reason people have mixed feelings about flag in or out.
So yes, leave it in—but make sure the stick is inserted correctly. And do the next group that favor: after fixing your ball marks, make sure the stick stands straight.
And to those to take it out to "make the hole larger". Don't. Leave it in and aim for the stick: make your target smaller instead.

The sound of the ball falling into the bottom of the cup is one of the game's many pleasures. It's not as satisfying with the flag in.

Leave it in…. but only because im lazy

Flag in always

I only take the pin out if it is leaning towards me or if the wind is blowing it around. I have also noticed that no one asks to have a pin tended anymore. It is worth noting that Dave Pelz came to the same conclusion years ago but he measured a smaller advantage. He was also measuring base on chipping as in those days, you could not leave the pin in for putting.

I'm not saying this data is wrong, but not really a broad enough variety of putts. As others have mentioned. 6'+ past the hole on a 20' putt might point to other issues with your putting. Golf digest did an article on this topic and their conclusion was the flag should be pulled on 99.9% of putts. Couldn't be more opposite to this conclusion. They virtually agreed with the findings of this video but included a much wider range of variables in their study.

I for one leave it in. There are a number of reasons. First, I can see the target better. Its akin to throwing darts. Hitting the center requires more concentration than just hitting the board. Secondly, I'm lazy in that I don't want to take it out and then back in. Simple. It also speeds up play and that is why the USGA changed the rule. BTW my average puts per round is 28. Just saying.

I can say from direct experience that leaving the flag in will cause more putts to miss than go in because the flag actually knocks the ball out. I tried it for the first month or so after the rule change and I can't tell you how many putts hit the flagstick and came out that otherwise would have gone in. That being said on really long putts outside of 35 feet or so I leave it in because it helps depth perception and your odds of making a putt from that distance are less than 5% anyway.

Great data here. I was hoping to see uphill and downhill putts.

Faster play. Leave it in.

Difference between pin types is valid. Otherwise data is distorted. How ofen are putts hit 6 or 9 feet past the hole on a flat green??

My problem is my brain trys to slide in between the stick and edge of the hole, even when I'm trying to hit the center of the pin.

Great video I leave the flag in on longer putts. It helps with my alignment and posture. Close up take the pin out and aim for the back of the hole. Recently I have hit the flag (taper flag) and the ball rebounds out and I am left wondering if the ball would have dropped due to the void or it hitting the back of the hole! Data is convincing but still not convinced!

I’ve been fortunate to make 17 holes in one. ALL of them had the pin in the hole! 😁

leave pin in unless leaning markedly against me due to slope or break. optimal speed for a putt as defined many years ago is to give enough weight for ball to finish 17" past hole

I wonder what the green speed was during the test, and if fast greens (slower ball speed) would change the stats?

Great info, but I want to see how the distance is read pin in or out. The biggest change I see (since dead center putts aren't common for amateurs) is the ability to judge the distance. I feel like I'm much better with the pin in and wonder if that is common. Also, I aim for the pin, not the cup, which gives me a larger margin of error.

This video convinced me, because I've always used pin out! But sure, I think from now I always leave it in!!
Just an other question: This "rule" is great for putting, but what about chipping or pitching.....do I leave the pin in or out?? (Chipping/pitching around the grenside!) It would be nice to test this next time, what do you think? thanx :) :)

Out, I always miss with the pin in, is something mentally 😅

Pin out,

Really great video, definitely worth the view. ? Can you do a video or do you have the data on a perfect pace putt that would finish 12”-18” past the cup. Just curious if there is data on this you could expand upon.
Thanks for what you do to better your subscribers games!

As an engineer, I love your process. As a golfer I appreciate that you tested both rigid and thin flag sticks. No other videos work all the variations. My only time to remove it is when it is not sitting plumb vertical. If it’s leaning too much toward the player, I’ll remove it. Cheers.

Only take it out if pin won’t sit in hole even.

The data showed leaving the pin in but his conclusion said the advantage is taking the pin out before he said to concrete them in.

There are some factors to be considered that you left out of the equations: 1. pins that for some reason - wind, some defects, etc - are not centered in the hole; 2- the impact of having the pin in or out has on aiming, it could be different from person to person

more importantly do you blow your party popper off at the beginning of your friend's back swing or at the top?

Don’t think it hurts to leave it in. Just make sure that you don’t have a leaner

Pin in on longer putts and pull it on shorter ones.

Im new to golf and have always kept the pin in now we all know thanks for the data

Who the hell is hitting a 10 footer 20 feet past ? Lol

Would love to see the raw data on this bc I remember seeing a scientific paper come out that concluded taking it out. What constituted “off-centered”? What biases or errors in your setup did u account for/find? Also, that was a pretty poor explanation of COR. It’s based on a materials hardness, not stiffness. Higher e = less energy transfer into the medium and higher velocity after collision. You would want a small e, not large

Pin in

I like having it in my peripheral vision.

What about putts that catch the lip? I started taking the pin out on all but the really long putts because I had a few catch some lip then hit the stick and stay out.

Interesting video to be sure, thank you. My 2 cents: run any future videos presenting statistics by anyone who has even a rudimentary knowledge of probabilities, both relative and absolute.