441 Are PV Optimizers Worth the Money (e.g. SolarEdge)?

Some of the Y-axes are wrongly labeled (W instead of kW and once V instead of A). But it should be clear what it needs to be.

Hallo Maestro: nice job done!
You should check if Hugo did you a favour and connected some panels to your string ;)
It would be interesting to show difference in total daily production (kWh) or yield (kWh/kWph). There must be difference otherwise it's some sort of perpetum mobile?
So in Swiss you do not have ELV (extra low voltage 120VDC) regulation (pushed by insurance companies and firemen)?
Pls, keep going-on.
Am new to your channel: did you already do any video about what is better: east or west side story (in case of south oriented ridge)

I'm paying 700 dlls each month with the solar panels installed in my home I need help I call the company no one answered me

Hallo Andreas
We plan a pv on a roof east west side with 30 degree and also a dormer (Gauben) on each side with 10 degrees.
Is an optimizer with solaredge in this case the best, or is preferibly fronius without optimizers enough?
Greetings Uwe
from Germany

solar edge inverters are junk.

I have a solar array with microinvertors. If a microinvertor dies, do I need to replace it or can I just remove the dead one and leave the rest?

What I have read, optimizer is a good choice if you want monitor status of every single of solar module. It also has safety feature that reduce DC voltage to touch-safe levels and arc fault detection.

I'm doing research prior to receiving quotes and there seems to be an excess of complaints from installers and homeowners that the solar Edge inverters are consistently failing within two years.... then it takes two to three months to get the system back into production.... this is very concerning for me and have real-world experience with how devastating that can be it might work field it affects manufacturers big-time when there is a single point of failure that can take down a whole system... I am an industrial process Chiller technician and when their Central Chiller system goes down without having any kind of redundancy to handle the heat load the whole plant goes down... they can end up in the same scenario depending on what part is failed they could be waiting anywhere from 3 to 6 months for the repair...

If you watch how Americans do product presentations by manufacturers to installers, you will know that it's not lying per se rather a culture of willful ignorance -ie, dont teach them what they're selling, only teach them what they need to say using the most simplest words/concepts possible, kinda like optimizing an idea. America, after all, is where a President gets elected by saying the world's largest economy is like running a household budget. Speaking of which, I dont know what all that data and parts means, but the Swiss accent made me believe the conclusion. But I do wonder, yes, the 2% "tax" run "optimizers" but I am under the impression they are also MPPTs.

Fake as hell.

If the inverter mounted behind the pv panel can deliver 300W, it will make any sense to have a pv that has 400Wpk? Thx.

I have SMA STP5.0 with 2x stings, each with 8x 420W panels. Should I install optimizers, does this 8x420W (50V open circuit V per panel = 400V, both strings together 800V) count as short string or will I be fine without optimizers?

Nice video, bursting marketing soap bubbles. I choose Enphase anyway for the following main reasons: no fans, no high voltage on the roof, redundancy, panel monitoring. But I agree, it comes at a cost, it's less effcient than the best string inverters. And the AC batteries have 70-80% efficiency only. In my view Solar Edge optimizers don't make any sense at all, because they increase the complexity of the system.

I need some advise please. I have a company that installed 15 maxeon 3 400w panel all on west, because the south was small with a small chimney although it can take 10 panels without the chimney. They installed givenergy 5kw gen 2 inverter. Max dc input 580v. Im getting a lot of overvoltage especially during the winter. 1 year ago this installation was carried out and i got 2800 kw which was under the 4600 kw they estimated. I was to re position the panels 7 to south to avoid most of the shading, only one would be shaded during the winter. Im thinking of going for fronius 6kw hybrid or go with the solar edge inverter and use optimiser. Also can you use optimiser for one side of the roof ? Many thanks

i have some strange results also
setup : 3x 545wp portrait on a small flat roof behind my house.
first panel in sun around 8.30, second 10.30 and 3rd around 12.30 (easy numbers to help memorize 🙂
i have 1 optimizer on the panel that is the longest in the shadow.
When i have a day with sun and some clouds, the optimizer does its job, it will turn of 1 panel until it gets sun and give energy from the first 2.
When i have a day with only sun and no clouds, it can take up to 10.30 before the panels start giving energy, even when 1.5 panels are already in the sun it will almost produce nothing until the second panel has full coverage from the sun as well.

Thanks Pro

Dzięki Stary

All depends on whether the seller makes.
More. Monly. Or more likely if they don't like the extra work lol

Excellent empirical study. Thanks for sharing the results and mith bussting.

Here in the US, there is a requirement for the panels to shut down if a fault is detected. This helps keep first responders and installers from getting electrocuted. When the main inverter is off, each panel only produces 1V (SolarEdge). They also report back on the state of each panel during operation. That said, I have been unable to find out how the inverter switches them on and reads the data. Any information on how the optimizers work, and communicate back to the main inverter would be appreciated. Thanks.

Thank you Andreas!

Very good video and absolut refreshing english while pointing out very clear the opinion

Nice analysis and testing. Are you still planning to do the “spring update” with the addition of optimizers?

Thank you for your nice video. I am in process of planing my system and I was under the impression that I need optimisers/micro inverters. but from what you said and explained, looks like it is not needed. My only problem is what do I use if I have panels on 3 sides, is that the only case when I would use them ? or just get hybrid inverter with 3 mppt inputs ?

Many thanks for the explanation. We are currently looking at installing 7 PV panels with micro inverters. Your information is extremely helpful.

Been looking at getting solar installed, all the panels are going to be same side facing can get a SMA 3600 string inverter for good price and 8x550w ish panels for over sizing as I am in the UK I don't expect the inverter to clip often even with 4.4kw total solar panels (they likely to be doing less then 400w per panel as it's the uk, so I am considing 10 panels as that brings the peak voltage the solar panels can make to 440v DC witch is maximum mpp but still way below 540v max DC)

was looking at solar edge or enphase but adds £700+1300 inverter to £1500 (enphase) but as it seems it just add per panel monitoring really

I could get tigo TS4 power optimizers at a later date if I wanted monitoring, as they work with any normal string inverter systems as they add monitoring only cost £50 each or £600-700 with cloud connect WiFi thing (seems wasteful really for monitoring really)

we can do around 3600w > 16A@240v in the UK with only needing to notify the electrical provider that's it's now live, above that we require pre permission before switch on (g99 or g100+ 16A limiting device I believe if they won't allow g99)

How small is a small string. I don't have a roof available for solar panels, but a shed. Probably I could put 4 panels on it, are optimizers recommend for a 4 panel string?

Do you recommend optimizers with panels facing south with shade from multiple trees the whole moring and from about 5pm onwards?

Wow. So helpful! Love your narration and information. Thank you for your work!

Although microinverters contain an optimizer, I believe the real benefit they offer is redundancy. They connect in parallel.
Thank you for the excellent video. I believe I have watched others of yours regarding antennas and vnas and thoroughly enjoyed those too.

TL;DR - nope, except in polyarrays facing different directions

Very well done.

Hi Andreas, I have found a much more significant issue when considering optimizers. They are high power switch mode power supplies and deliver excessive amounts of EMI in the HF bands.If your neighbor is using SolarEdge, check the interference on 20m band during the day. You'll see the noise floor significantly raised with distinctive bands of switching noise throughout the band. On 80M and the lower frequency bands things are even worse. SE optimizers are banned in Sweden due to this. I'm interested to know if you are seeing this interference also.

Do any of you have any thoughts on if optimizers truly make a difference on panels facing different directions? The reason I ask is, I have an extra MPPT on my SolArk inverter that will allow me to use up to 12 of my 85 Voc panels (4 modules in series and 3 strings on that MPPT), but in order for me to max out this MPPT this way, I would have to have the panels pointed in 3 different directions do to space limitations (4 each facing S, E, W). Would placing optimizers on these panels add any significant improvement?

Fantastic video. Thanks very much Andreas

Hi Andreas, compliments again. But there is a problem with the link to the LTspice files in Github: the error 404 message appears saying "This is not the page you are looking for". Is there alternative path to reach these files? Thanks!

Thank you @AndreasSpiess for a very good video!
You mentioned that optimizers might help if panels point in different directions.
I have two panels than I'm not using right now. I have 18 panels pointing to SW but no more space to put panels in that direction. But I could place the two unused panels in NE direction and on the same string as the 18 SW panels. Should those two NE panels have optimizers in that case do you think? I feel that the worst panels are the unused ones, but is that always the case?

Thank you again for great video!

Hi Andreas,

Thanks for another great video.

I have a PV system installed with a string inverter and I am curious to monitor the power performance of each panel individually. I believe that by measuring the voltage increase over each panel, I can get an idea of its performance, as the current is the same throughout the string and can be obtained from the inverter.
However, I am looking for a cost-effective solution to measure the voltage of each panel without having to purchase expensive micro-inverters or optimizers. Do you have any suggestions?

I’m thinking down the line of a voltage sensor that will transmit it readings wirelessly and it should get it’s power from the solar cell minimize cabling. Does such a product exist or is something that needs a maker :-)

Kostal Plenticore plus 10 inverter with two strings used for panels and one for a battery
40 x Jinko Eagle HC60M 310 Wp

No mention of the regulatory & safety requirements some jurisdictions have for shutting down solar panel output during power outages, to protect fire & utility workers. Or the fact that simple strings provide zero monitoring &/or diagnostic capabilities.

NICE ONE ...NEXT TIME ON REAL TIME WITH REAL VIDEOS ...IS THE BEST WAY FOR PEOPLE ARE NOT UNDERSTUND GOOD ENGLISH.

Sketchy video. They add a level of safety, some increased performance, and let you monitor INDIVIDUAL modules within a string. The biggest downside is they are another failure point in the system, but easily replaced as well. You didnt say any of this but instead go off on a tangent explaining some basic shit. Many places require them for rooftop residential applications because they add a level of safety and enable RAPID SHUTDOWN. Without optimizers you will ALWAYS have voltage between panels on your roof. Even if its on fire. Optimizers should bring down to 1 or 2 volts

Hello how are you sir? I need your help to choose the solar system ,I got quote from sunpower and sunrun for 10 kw system sunrun with string inverter while sunpower with micro inverter,with same warranties,but 5-6k difference between prices ,everyone is telling me to go with sunpower because they have micro inverter,so in case one panel go bad rest still produces energy,or I got quote from freedom for ever and jinkosolar they are even cheaper please help ,or give me ur email or phone number where I can reach u ,thanks a lot

Thanks for the video and sorry I'm still new to this, but what do you mean by optimizers or microinverters are needed for short strings?

Thank you for this clear explanation. I wonder if electric car batteries which I think are created from a lot of small lithium batteries iin series, also have schottkey diodes inside, to maintain as much capacity as possible, if one or two of those batteries go bad..

Very good, thanks for sharing your experience!

Interesting video! Got recommended it on YT.

Like once you pay your electricity bill the energy is free, ...not free at all in both cases

Totally awesome

Very interesting and thanks for Sharing your results. Bypass diode is the magic word here. In combination with an advanced Inverter (shadow Management). I worked in the PV industry some years back and experienced the rise of these companies. We had cooperations with these companies and also investigated what you showed. We had large Installations where we did what you investigated. I agree that it is not worth the money for a private small PV construction. It is more important to work with an expert to plan and Install the PV modules. Optimize to get the most of it is not trivial and needs good expert. Microinverters have their niche but is not the general solution like you said and showed.

Fantastic video -thank you for the useful insight! Some people have more money then sense - sadly some of these solar installers will believe the marketing hype and happy to accept the kick backs / commissions from these big vendors!