DO NOT HUNT WITH THIS - My Unpopular Opinion

Get an 8.6 Blackout with 1:3 twist, 350gr expanding Makers or 342gr Pork Shredder your mind will be changed, it's also a great supersonic cartridge.

A note about a broadhead vs SS rifle.. out of my bow I shoot a 550/600 grain arrow at 300ish fps. The frontal diameter is quite small considering the blades are so narrow giving a broad head arrow a huge amount of sectional density to drive penetration. SS bullets just don't compete.

Also, popping a southern doe is not the same thing as a mature western mule deer, and definitely not something like a bull elk.

The key here is energy and how the wound channel is created. The broadhead despite being slower and lower energy has a broad cutting diameter thus creates a wound channel similar to a faster expanding projectile.

Agreed

I agree completely with you.

To hunt with subsonics you need special bullets that WILL expend/open up on the subsonic speeds. Otherwise you are correct: the bullet just goes through making a thin wound channel. I think Lehigh is making these bullets. Good luck.

Didn't you just have to call a tracking dog to find a swacked buck?

Im with you Who Tee Who , I’m all about high velocity and genetic energy. Best knock down power for me.

Love swackers 100% kill rate for me with little to know tracking. If I am in the woods, crossbow with swackers is my go to.. Hunting fields .308.. Took me few years to figure it out. Good video!

Why use sub ammo. Just why

I totally agree, those sub-sonic aren’t made for much, that broadhead is deadly if in the right spot !!

100% agree!

Yep i say same thing no subsonics. If your gonna have to use ,gotta change the slug out to something soft lead silvertip hollowpoint to get expansion . Jmo swackers are awsome !!!

I think the average hunter will have better shot placement with a rifle than a bow making sub-sonic hunting superior if you use some better performing subsonic projectiles, like makers that open up like a broadhead.

I use the maker bullets in 300 blk out sub sonic and 350 grain 45-70 sub sonic. There is no deer that can take that and live. 45-70 will flip a deer with a shoulder hit literally. The 300 blk out they go 30-40 yards and fall over. Until you try and use these slugs it unfair to say ALL subsonics are bad. Certain bullets have for sure been accurate but don’t perform at 1050 fps. I myself done test that I still can’t believe happened with my own eyes!!!!! It’s a different situation totally from regular rifle hunting.

Your preference is just that, can’t fault you for it. But IMHO if you want subsonic ammunition to have reliable terminal effects it needs to be cast lead. Muzzle loaders have been getting the job done for centuries. No reason you can’t load them in cartridges too. I get it jacket bullets don’t foul barrels but neither do subsonic boolits if properly sized and lubed.

I saw a video by Tom River talking about shot placement with a 243. Maybe the solution to using the subsonic is using the same shot placement mentioned in his 243 video

I agree with you totally!

Cant argue with the subsonic versus arrows but your story about shot threw the heart is not true you didn't hit it in the heart and how would you know if you didn't find the deer

I don’t understand the whole subsonic craze. I want as much punch as i can get.

I agree 100%. I love my 2" swacker's. They are amazing.

Don't send a boy to do a man's job. It's not fair to the deer...

I wonder how much difference there is in subsonic vs supersonic rounds in terms of penetration. Maybe try shooting through a 2x4 at long distance and compare the two.

So true 👍🏽

45 acp is naturally subsonic. I'm sure it would do fine around 50 yards.

I used shwacker 2.25” cut 125gr and they are devastating! I shot a buck this year and my shot was terrible (my own fault) and hit liver and gut, and it still only made it 100 yards to the other side of the field and watched him go down at the tree line. Then few days later I set my brother in-law up in my blind with my bow shooting the same broadhead and he took a doe, she ran around in a circle and fell over 15 yards beside the blind. So far I’m a big fan of shwackers!

i agree, no subsonic for hunting.

Gotta agree with you speed kills

Supersonic all day. Even 12 gauge slug is hit or miss. My old man once told me he had both lungs blown out the exit end of a deer and still ran a while

I don’t know anything about subsonic but you’re making a lot of sense to me. I do bow hunt a lot. You should de a ballistic gel video on super sonic and subsonic ammo.

Agreed

If using subsonic rounds, bullet selection is very important. Not all are designed to expand at subsonic speeds. There are a few that do though, in 300 blk, you just have to research.

Swackm n stackm baby BAM

Never understood why someone would want to take something that has less power to the woods when they can have something in the same round that has way more power.

I have never taken a deer with a subsonic rifle load.
No plans to.

Safety zone requirements differ from archery and centerfire also.
Fort scott munitions, TUI
[ tumble upon impact ] subsonic.
Turns sideways upon impact.
190 grain 30 cal sideways gonna cause damage. Downfall is, most game officers will class it as FMJ.
Doesn't expand, fine line to walk.
Ive taken vermon and varmints..
With it, no deer, wouldn't appreciate appreciate fine.

I'm with you, @WHOTEEWHO. Over the past three years I've used a crossbow at least 80 days of the approximately 90 days I've hunted. Modern broadheads induce massive trauma and routinely pass right through even the largest whitetail.

Before I had even heard of the assorted "Blackout" rounds two friends of mine learned the hard way about the ethical problems that such ammo CAN cause when hunting deer size game OR feral hogs as it turned out later. Both men are lifelong hunters, and I do NOT want either of them shooting at me with ANYTHING, as they are just that good with handguns, rifles, shotguns, and bows! Some years ago, when the "Blackout" craze was just catching traction, one of my friends shot a very nice buck with his recently purchased .300 at about 75 yards. And thus, the tracking began......In North Carolina......And ended up in South Carolina! Yeah, yeah, we all lived within twenty miles of each other with the state line running right down the middle. The track lasted almost seven miles! The buck finally bled out about two miles into S.C. before my friends found it. It was pitch black dark and they had no idea they had crossed the state line (at least once) until a S.C. DNR Officer lit 'em up thinking they were "jack lighting" deer in the field where they had found the buck. Thankfully neither of my friends had carried their hunting rifles on the track and were able to explain what had caused them to be out "hunting" at that time of night in the WRONG state! The DNR Officer, also a lifelong hunter, listened to their story and believed them. How do I know all this? Who do you think rolled out of bed and drove to where they were at and helped load that buck into the bed of his pickup?

100% agree with you.

I agree keep the hot sauce full boogie out of respect for the animal that you are harvesting!!

Yes you are correct in your opinion!
Why do you think the bullet manufacturers say some of their products need at least 1800 FPS to expand.

Hi from West Virginia again, I now what you are saying for sure I loaded shells for at least 30 years, it called SHOCK AND ALL and you no what I'm talking about 280 Rem.,other hand killed a lot of deer with a true patch and Ball 50 cal.true HP muzzloader ,ok that's all I got to say ,MERRY CHRISTMAS

You are completely spot on correct . Granted I'm not a sticks & strings archery guy . I have taken game with a compound bow , but I would rather go hunting knowing I brought enough gun to the hunt and definitely supersonic ammo for a quick , clean , humane kill . If I have to chase or track an animal , to me , that means I failed as a hunter .

You completely stuck on energy and velocity that’s your problem. Manufacturers like Lehigh, cavity back bullets make bullets that is expand fully at low velocities. If I hunt with a standard accubond bullet is expands reliably from 1800 - 3050. The bullets I mentioned depending on which one you use can be 600 - 1250 fps for reliable expansion. It’s called use the right bullet for the job. If I use an accubond and shoot it 3200 fps and when the bullet explodes close range then that makes me the idiot for not using the bullet within its limits. A bullet that expands reliably at 1800 fps is not expanding at 1700fps its pencils through and dumps nothing. A mono bullet hitting an animal with 1500 lbs of energy but completely passes through did not drop 1500lbs of energy in the animal. It dropped a lot less than you think. As an ethical hunter you should work within the confines of the bullet design and shot placement. People using a cup and core bullet to shoot sub sonic with a deer is unethical. However using the correct bullet for sub sonic hunting and using the bullet exactly how the manufacturer says to use is ethical. If the conservation thought it was unethical they would ban it. But here in Missouri it’s quite the opposite. If I want to hunt with a 9mm I could. I wouldn’t. But if I did I would use an xtp and test it throughly before using it. A broadhead has next to none of energy and relies on cutting. A 194 ME lehigh bullet had way more energy than a broadhead but cuts like a broadhead and penetrates deeper. It’s essentially like shooting a super fast crossbow that doesn’t exist. You know that sound an arrow makes went it hits the cavity of the deer. Well take that sound and times it by 4. That is the sound these bullets make when they hit. They give you instant feedback of a kill shot.

Im a bowhunter, so id rather hunt with a arrow over any bullet. No deer stand no blinds straight west spot and stalk

Merry Christmas to you and family God Bless

Bullets work from hydro static shock, fluid water displacement, 20 ga sabot, 400 legend 45-70 far from sub sonic, anything that breaks sound barrier, is hyper sonic
Broadheads massive trauma, I use either one, only lost 2 deer in 30 yrs, both were from Archery,
Ohio is straight wall,or slug that’s it, both are deadly

That makes sense. Rifles kill with velocity, that is just science. I love love the swhacker.

I did the math on this a couple months ago as I had the opportunity to hunt 2 states this year. My home state has a muzzle energy restriction and the other state had a caliber restriction.
Using one of the many energy calculators available a 200 grain projectile launched at 1000fps calculate to 488 ft-lbs (+/- 390 ft-lbs @ 100yards) of muzzle energy, less than half my home state requires. I'm sure that someone makes projectiles that may expand properly but my particular rifle barrel does not have the twist to support such a long heavy bullet which would make accuracy and consistency an issue
I say all that to say that, if I played average-joe-off-the-shelf-value meal hunter(as I am), it would be unethical for me to carry that setup into the woods. I do however believe that a specific firearm, ammo build and range expectation could be achieved for medium to large game hunting. I think the technology will catch up at some point. All of this is of course IMHO.
Took my first deer this year with a suppressor using standard velocity ammo. The report wasn't much more than a 22 rifle, it went down as expected with the bonus of not having ringing ears and within 20 minutes more deer came past the stand.
Thanks for the vid! Merry Christmas!