Feminism - Words of the World

My main problem is the fact that women are allowed to hit men but not the other way around. I remember back five years ago in fourth grade when a girl kept constantly hitting me in school, and I hit her back. She told the teacher, but I never got in trouble because she did hit me first. I went home to my parents and told them, and that's when I found out about this double standard. They weren't mad at me, they just stated "Don't do it in the future". *cont*

*cont* I said that was sexist and my parents responded trying to "explain" how the rule was actually fair, by telling me "girls aren't as strong as boys and can't fight the same". I then explained how not everybody fits the gender role, and presented other counter-arguments (I am actually very weak for a boy my age, so this was really degrading to me). They then just said "Girls aren't meant to be hit" without debunking any of my arguments. Actually, it's mostly my dad who did that. I was mad.

*cont* Until this double standard goes away, I am not in the least bit going to support feminism. I do believe in equal rights. But I can never call myself a feminist. It is far to biased and one sided. Just take a look at domestic violence commities, "battered women" "violence against women" "men who hit women" etc. It pisses me off.

i was 8 when i slapped a girl on our way home from school. the rest of the way home her whole family and neighbors were stopping and threatening me that i better move to another school or they'll kill me. grown ups, catholics and i'm 8 years old. the slap was just a reaction to her kicking me in the butt which i found disrespectful. today she's married to a fat football hooligan twice her age. i contacted her on facebook 15 years later and while i forgot what happened the bitch remembers it all.

it's when men want to be rich men.

3:31 Looks like some other dude's hand comes into the frame to scratch his head for him.

So your argument is literally "feminism is bad because I'm not allowed to hit women?"

So we call it feminism because it began as a movement to bring women rights equal to those of men, at a time when they were oppressed by the male-dominated society. Now women's rights are much closer to equality (still not there yet) but why do we use feminism and not use a more gender-neutral term for the idea gender-equality?

the mathematician fourier? or a different one?

In America, self-identified "feminists" are generally perceived as man-hating psychotic bitches with no actual reasoning ability to speak of. Out of the half dozen I've personally met, only one did not fit this description. It's a shame such an admirable movement has been hijacked by crazies.

@guppypal And that is why the actual movement can't make progress. Because of generalization and stereotyping that causes people not to take diplomatic feminists seriously.

Who is the man speaking? I'd would to hear more of what he has to say.

I wouldn't say it's been hijacked by crazies, it's just that more attention has been paid to them because many men don't like and distrust and are probably afraid of feminists, so they like to disregard the movement as consisting only of crazy men-haters. And they also make better stories. I've never met a feminist who fits the stereotype, but I have met a dozen men who try to convince me that I hate men when I tell them I'm a feminist. And I don't hate men, many of them are very lovely.

Er, I'm a feminist and I'm kinda on your side. Well, I don't think you should have hit her back, not because she's a girl, simply that all violence is wrong, but otherwise you're right. You should have just gone to the teacher instead, nobody has the right to hurt someone else. And I don't think you understand what feminism is about as I'm pretty sure the majority of feminists I know would have called your parents sexist for saying that.

Yeah, but that's simply cause the cases of domestic violence against women are way more frequent, so it's a larger problem numberwise. It's like Fathers For Justice, women aren't doing similar campaigns because in most custody trials they win, it's a much more common problem for men than women.

I believe in gender equality. Therefore I will call myself a masculist. I expect it not to offend anyone. Does that not seem absurd?

OMG! Here in Brazil (randomly?), the intro ad was for Dove Men Care. v=V6e_N5IzA24 I don't have command enough of Portuguese, but the video was pretty clear: it is horrifying for a man to have 'girly' hair, so don't use 'girly' hair care products. Taken as a parody of advertising targeting women, it is pretty effective at showing how dehumanizing typical advertising is. Taken as a serious ad for the product at hand, it is cringeworthy to watch before a discussion of the word 'feminism'.

Feminism is horrible. Just horrible.

Actually, domestic violence is roughly equal among the sexes.

I think it's difficult for this particular double standard to go away without feminism. As the prof said, feminism is multifaceted and my feminism definitely is about equality between sexes; not just women to have the same rights as men but vice versa, to work for the betterment of all genders to express themselves freely. Because patriarchy also constraints men (that men are the batterers and women the batterees). Working these out also help men and that's what feminism is about to me.

One of the biggest (if not THE) problems of documenting domestic violence is the idea that patriarchy promotes, that men are the perpetrators while women are the victims. So yes, victimization may be becoming more gender-equal but many men find it difficult to report. Patriarchy expects men to be strong and aggressive and being a victim of violence by women no less, is seen as something to ridicule, somehow unmasculine. This is why reports of domestic violence is so very skewed and unreliable.

Not in the UK (caada.org.uk). It's obviously harmful to both sexes and is a huge problem for many men too, but, especially when it comes to deaths caused by domestic abuse and repeated abuse, women are considerably more likely to be victims. Mind you, I do think domestic abuse victim support groups etc should definitely cater for both sexes.

That's without taking into account that men are far less likely to report abuse, and that the definition for domestic abuse has become so generalized (including things such name calling and withholding sex) that the figures have become absurdly inflated.

Are we discussing Feminism or Feminist? Are these not two different words?

féminisme n'est pas de l'autorat de Fourier susaufeminicides.blogspot.fr/2012/06/rosier-pourpre.html

Well, activists on both male and female DA say that a lot or even most abuse cases don't get reported, so really we can't know that. And I will trust an official government institution on what is DA more than a random person on the internet, sorry.

Go look at the criteria for domestic abuse for yourself on the website you linked if don't believe me. It's defined not only as physical, but emotional, verbal, and financial. You'd be hard pressed to find someone who wouldn't be identified as having experienced domestic abuse.

er, I haven't. And my point was that the people who actually deal with these cases probably know better and understand what actual abuse is and perhaps you don't. Also, I assume many men experience and have complained about these types of abuse, so this is really unrelated to anything I've said before.

That's odd. Last time I checked assumption wasn't evidence.

I agree, but still doesn't change the fact that by many definitions it is.

I'm not sure about the legal definition in Canada, but for many organizations which collect domestic abuse statistics it is included.

No one actually burned their bras... that was mostly just a dramatization.

Which men? In general woman around 20 or so have a much higher sex drive then men. To assume that withholding sex is a form of abusive is to imply that rape isn't abuse but more so a form of liberation from abuse. Which itself is extremely negative.

My biggest concern with feminism is, will they stop when things are equal or will they keep fighting for more and more until men are second class citizens? with female graduation rates from college being higher than men in the US for most of my lifetime I am concerned. Half the women I know think they are equal to men and the other half thing they are better, what is to stop them from doing to men what men did to their grandmothers?

Your highly inadequate paranoia amazes me. Why don't you start fighting back when the college graduation rates actually start to be reflected in better payment and keep your dominatrix phantasies to yourself until then?

Yeah, it's called "backlash".

Women are equal to men, the patriarchy is dead or dying. If women want equal pay all they have to do is go out and get it. You aren't given equal treatment, you are equal and you fight for fairness. If you expect anything to be given to you then you don't deserve it. Straw manning me on the internet will not do women any good so get over yourself.

Uhm ok, you convinced me. Until now I thought it to be a problem that boys perform worse in schools but as you say, they have equal rights so they should just get their shit together and learn. If they expect anything to be given to them then they don't deserve it. After all, the patriarchy is dead or dying but the battle of the sexes is well alive and if you want anything for your side, you just have to take it before *they* do.

What I'm trying to say is this: gender inequality is much more complicated than just writing "equal rights" in some law. The whole society has to change. We all subconsciously raise our sons and daughters differently but you expect them to behave the same? This is a very long process and we're learning and spotting new problems while we go. With you standing up and shouting "It's all over, go home, folks!" ... I can't but doubt your motives.

I am upset that I will live most of my life in the anti man backlash to the ten if not hundreds of thousands or years of male control. Saying that I should be fine with men being treated badly is the same as a man a hundred years ago saying that women should be ok with how they were treated. I know it will get there and there isn't anything I can do, but I still have the right to be pissed off about my place in history.

boys used to do better in school till people saw there was an imbalance and started creating programs to help educate girls better. And in the next decade or two things will get bad enough they will create programs to help educate boys better. In order for something like equal treatment to exist either we need to get rid of laws and policies that discriminate based on gender or invent a government that doesn't over-correct for problems and works the way it is supposed to.

I highly doubt your science here because "overregulation" was never among the possible reasons girls are better in school I heard of and it's not a closed case anyways AFAIK but in any case, control theory is a research topic for a reason so I also doubt you've figured it all out by yourself already. Rule of thumb: whenever you think everybody in charge is just too dumb, things might in fact just be more complicated than you thought. That's not to say that there are no dumb people in charge.

The one thing I like about the right wingers over the lefties is that they only are condescending when talking about religion and not everything else. I said over-correction not overregulation as in there are more programs designed to help girls learn better than their are programs to help boys. In a equal system girls would still outperform boys in school, on average, since they tend to be more still and easier to teach.

Also I didn't say anything about the people in charge being "too dumb". A lot of governments apparent stupidly comes from mob mentality and it's elected member trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Politics is a dumb system run by mostly intelligent people with their hand tied behind their backs and people yelling at them from every direction.

And do you want an equal system or not? And if you believe that in such a system girls would still perform better, who tells you that our system isn't equal already? I still doubt your science and you did nothing to show that you have the background to qualify such a judgment.

Yeah, your anti-democratic sentiments notwithstanding, things might still be more complicated than you think. Usually I'm only condescending when I feel that someone has very strong opinions on a matter that he has done little research on. In your case so far: gender studies and control theory.

I don't need science and studies to tell me about things that I have seen first hand. I went through the educational system not all that long ago, I see the effects of politics just walking around in my own town. If you want to believe what you are told rather than what you see, then fine, I can't stop you. People like you have propped up every government in history both good and bad. I will continue to think for myself and question authority.

"I don't need science and studies to tell me about things that I have seen first hand" said the homoeopath.

00:10 *used to well then again I guess it can still mean that but that also means feminists are way off