On Writing: hard magic systems in fantasy [ Avatar l Fullmetal Alchemist l Mistborn ]

Where would you rank jedi force users in the the rank of hard or soft magic and why?

My magic system is going to be around gemstones and elements.

I have a fantasy/dystopian story that has a magic system and I like to know the science behind the magic that is being used so I can best figure out how it works

Incorporeal particles that produce magical energy create a symbiotic relationship with humans that allow humans to harness their magic in a way that makes the humans view the particles as an extension of their own bodies. Different types of particles exist, but only one type can form a symbiosis with a human at one time, so those born with magic only have one type of Magic.

The magic particles are harnessed mentally and react to the Magic-Wielder's mental and physical state as well as effects it themselves (a fire Magic-Wielder in the story who lost their ability to use their magic has a longing towards fire). This means that most of how magic is used is making it easier to use it (flying your hands around to use magic is the equivalent of running your finger under word to read). It can do unexpected things when their is high emotion, or can be nullified when a wielder is sick or injured (since it is mental, the cause of illness or illness like symptoms is not important. You could be allergic to say cats and it causes your magic to weaken.) Also, since it is mentally tied, mentally difficult tasks, such as killing a person, are nearly impossible to do on purpose (accidents can and do happen in the story)

One my major issue with some hard magic system ( not all ) is that they don't feel like magic . Like at times authors go too far making their magic system too grounded and realistic to a point it loses all the mysticism that magic has . It just feels like power system and not magic .

Hello Future me. Could you do a breakdown of the magic system in Blood Legacy: New World of Doom

Hard Magic, the magic is inherent but takes years of training and knowledge to use properly

How TF does this man feel like the most chill and most chaotic

Couldn't help but smile each time Gandalf appeared!

Hello Future Me: Wandless magic is only an option to level 99 wizards with really cool hats
Professor Quirinus Quirrel: Am I a joke to you?

Practice building magic systems for ttrpg's if you can balance it with numbers its easier to see where your in universe limits should be

You didn't talk about Mistborn. I want a refund

Every time someone Korra as if it was canon to the Avatar series, one ancient reincarnatio of the Avatar dies out of shame and disgust. Fuck Korra, fuck Korra fans, and fuck you

fma really is the gold standard when it comes to hard magic systems. because of its fundamental rules and its basically souped up chemistry, even though the audience cant read a transmutation circle, we can still figure out why certain attempts didnt work. even things that appear to be generic power enhancing objects still follow the law of equivalent exchange. one of my favourite things about the story is realising something that appeared a little convenient or more soft magic always follows the rules set in place in the beginning

I'm going through all three of your videos because I'm not sure where to classify my magic system on the hard–soft spectrum, found this one very helpful though.

Parts of it lean a bit hard, but more so because the people using the magic are two of the three protagonists. Magic is hereditary (sort of) through the royal lineage, meaning only the royal family can use it.

There are other magical elements, such as magical substances; curses; hereditary blessings that have since diluted into really subtle, barely noticeable, and mostly forgotten about abilities; and magical creatures to the north. These elements of the magic system are very soft and barely explained because, leaning into Brandon Sanderson's first rule, they aren't used to solve problems in the story. And then there's this weird thing involving souls and an inexplicable bitter aftertaste that I haven't really thought much about and definitely won't be explaining, and there's absolutely nothing hard about that, but it's there as a sort of motif and a hint for the protagonists to use to unravel the mystery.

In most fantasy stories, silver is a werewolf weakness because of its purity, being harmful to impure beings.
Another version I personally like is that since Judas betrayed Jesus for silver, silver became the penance for the cursed and the damned.

The volume for this video is all over the place.

I'm just beginning my worldbuilding journey, but I intend on using a stamina system but developing kind of a ttrpg system. So as a character uses an ability or does something athletic, subtract stamina from total stamina. So it's much easier to not cheat.

My magic system is pretty brutal as a mage you get one of 6 magical abilities, travel magic(because the world is many times bigger than earth) this magic shaves your life away, word magic make one person every 6 years go crazy by getting rid of the concept of words for them not likely you’ll live though, death magic chant the word for die and steal their life if you’re not killed your tongue is cut off, corruption magic things around you corrupt so no friends and you can’t grow food, war magic you can only use your powers for murder otherwise you don’t have powers, healing magic you transfer their ailments to you.

I run some roleplaying games which definitely use the Hard Magic system. You've definitely given me food for thought here, like the cost and the weaknesses of the magic. Some good stuff. :)

You're good at helping with stories.

alchemy =/= magic

What about a world with multiple magic systems both soft and hard

Thanks for the helpful advice. Hard magic systems are difficult but this helped a ton.
“
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
“ John 3:16-21 (NIV)

“
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
“ Romans 10:9-10 (NIV)

My magic system (at least at the moment) is very soft. Magic is something a character is born with depending on what kind of species they are. (aka some people and creatures don’t possess any magic whereas others have loads of it) And magic itself requires energy in order to use and bigger spells require more energy. (More experienced magic users don’t use as much energy and it’s easier for them to use harder spells and vise verse for newer magic users)

But otherwise it’s pretty vague. The royal family is known for their powerful magic (hence why they rule the kingdom) and some species use elemental magic as opposed to more wizardry and witch magic that others use. And at the same time several people don’t have any magic at all and have learned to benefit from others magic (machines and magic embedded tools) in order to not fall behind in evolving and new technology.

i like the idea of magic being radioactive.

a body can only handle so much of this magical radiation that it will mutate the magician in strange ways or outright kill them

Best hard magic system belongs to Season 1 of "Naruto". The idea of chakra is amazing and how its limited because it uses your strength.

What if it's not magic in that world but science and it is seen as so?

I know this to be an older video. However I'd be interested hear people's opinion on breath based magic systems as opposed to weave based. (Think skyrim vs dnd.)

Currently writing a novel with a magic system that is very similar to Avatars bending system. Of course I’ve added my own little things like instead of calling them benders they are now Vessels that have a traveling deity inside them that allows them to harness certain elements based on what kind of spirit they have.

I did at first not include this kind of lore cause I didn’t think much of it, but this just left the whole “being able to bend elements with your will” in kind of a boring state.
There is of course exhaustion factors so they can’t just keep going which makes characters use their abilities sparingly when fighting

What if there would be both? Some kind of hard magic and soft magic in the same world

One thing to remember is worlds past: if character travels to another world and it is filled with humans, than how did that happend? Also how it is possible that humans evolved to use magic and other animals not? If you anwser questions like that, your magic becomes even more hard (which I considier a good thing).

I know this is a commonly used example, but i think mushoku tensei is great at this



One of the characters on it states that magic is all powerfull, we can see how the use of magic can be used to do stuff like create water bubbles, to time travel 50 years to the past...
But just bacause the magic can do anything doesn't mean anyone can handdle it.
Magic costs mana, and not having enough can kill you, because magic may as well consume parts of your body to fuel it self, it using all of your mana supply at once can cause permanent hair decoloration, wich lets be honest may in some cases make you look cooler... and there is also the very cool fact that a verry skilled swordsman could beat the shit out of a skilled mage (D&D could never...) and this is because warriors normally develop a some sort of armor per say... (im not gonna lie and say i know everything about this aspect, the protagonist is a mage, he is not that much of a warrior, and i honestly pay more attention on the magic than on the swords...but maybe i should next time i got read it) there is also people that are born with a "talent" this people are verry verry rare, they have a lot of names, from gifted children, to cursed children, to just Mikus. This talents may include super human strenght and tough skin, time manipulation, flying, needing to give head once a week or die... so some of them are talents some not really, and even talents have weakneses, like the super tough skin guy is still killable if using fire, as he isnt fure proof.

And i woulf really recomend to see the anime or read the novels....it might me sus at the beggining but its just for the sake of character development later on, and it is one of the Best fantasies made...

my magic system is multidimensional. there are people who have natural gifts (or curses), and they have a more hard magical system to them that masquerades as soft until they explore those limits throughout the series, over time compacting it into a more hard, solidified system.
then, there are those who seek to wield and control the forces in an ersatz manner, meaning without innate ability, which is contrary to the first, meaning the latter relies heavily on ritual, grammar, language, and a suspended sense of disbelief that is pertinent to its success. these require a very hard and rudimentary, little room for creativity or variation type system. and then i have a world of beings outside both of these other magick systems, whom have abilities and magicks that defy these other two systems entirely, leaving them open and mysterious to an almost primitive, prehistoric yet eternally wise dimension of being.

so, i have an idea for a limitation of a magic system, where the limitation works on the law of thermodynamics, and Cause & Effect.
under the first rule, Doing something Magical only works as long as someone continually pours magic into said action.
that being said, the second aspect of Cause and effect is still prevalent, so while the cause is gone, the effect can remain, provided the effect is not also magical.
the two rules of magic is most prevalent with these two examples:
If a wizard created a Golem, said golem would move through magical means, thus when the wizard stops empowering the Golem, the Golem stops functioning
Contrary wise, if a wizard uses his magic to turn a lump of rock into a sword, if the magic should cease, then the Blade doesn't automatically turn back into a lump of rock.
this would make the more magic intensive ideas like Necromancy next to impossible. at most they will only be able to reanimate the dead for a time, no longer than within their own lifespan. while Curses cannot pass through generations.

Interesting! I realized from this video that I use a hard magic system with a different soft magic system setup as an incomparable for a power scale check.

My hard magic system represents science. The mages who use it master it with their minds.

The soft magic system represents religion and is tied to an all powerful god. I limit the soft magic users as sages who are reclusive and their power is checked by character struggle. But I also do away with them in the middle of the third book leaving the reader to then ask what the hard magic system is capable of now that the good soft magic system users are gone.

My magic system can be summarized with "everything you believe is true will become true". You gain power by spreading rumors, however, the main character is the only thing exempt from said rule, be it a blessing or a curse. The general population is also not sure how the system works, believing that only blessed or cursed artifacts may cast spells, giving the churches power over much of the world.

which is funny because in reality Magic(k) is quite easy and democratic

One of my favorite short stories Sanderson has written, Perfect State, plays with hard magic systems really well! Not to give away too much, but at one point the magic system goes bad and there is a cost, but no power... so a character then uses that cost AS IF it were a power, something you could only do with a really well-written hard magic system!

It never really occurred to me that skill and training were limitations. I always thought those were a given

"forgive me for using "Avatar: The Last Airbender" as the benchmark for all things good and holy in writing, but it is!" - you got me subscribed on that part. Already been thinking doing that for praising FMAB for what a masterpiece it is.


P.S. and then realized the video is 4yo, lol

Thanks this was so helpful! Especially the examples! All other creators are too lazy to put examples and it makes it harder for me to understand what they mean :/

Tolkien's magic was soft, but his story wasn't really about magic. The wizards were on par with Sauron in terms of power- but they were forbidden from using their power to do anything other than advise and protect.

In GOT, the Faceless men's magic doesn't make sense. If Arya takes the Hound's face, or the mountain's, does she get big. Is she as strong as them? How does it work? This video is so helpful. If you use the advice you've given, your readers hopefully won't run into those questions.

“Forgive me for using (avatar) as the benchmark for all things good and holy in writing,” oh dont worry, you don’t need forgiveness for that

Took me long enough to find a channel like this. So good!